Brad Ideas - Is Versed being used for torture? - Comments

Versed and Tourture? Hmmm.

Anonymous — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 03:32:34 -0700

Well, let's see what you folks think. Much of what I have been through many suffer. Thus, I am not a special case; or am I????
I am an outspoken activist. I have over the last year suffered much at the hands of the V.A. medical system.

I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I asked for an all female team for a mastectomy and GYN surgeries. I was told it would be an all female team. Then after I was drugged they started bringing in teams of men, multiple practice pelvic, breast and rectal exams, cath, prep, surgery, post care, mostly men all over me and frequently alone with a male. I would never have known, save a male medical resident introduced himself to my husband as attending just before he rushed off to my surgery. I asked my female surgeon who I was told did the surgery and she denied any males were in the room, no male students, residents, nurses, "no males" she said. Well, then I needed a colonoscopy. Again I requested an all female team. I told the G.I. doc. Look, "no males" or I do not want to do this, I have reason to believe I was lied to before please "no males". She assured me no men. Then, after being given, "something to help me relax", after being striped and preped and in the procedure room, again in came the men this time just before going out. They wanted me to know I was being violated. After, this I requested my medical records.

After many hours of research, questions, investigating, I have been able to figure out that I was subjected to practice exams (pelvic, breast, and rectal) and procedures (cath) by teams of students and doctors including many men prior to surgery, that men were involved in prep, and surgical procedures, and that I was left in the care of nothing but men post op. I did not see a woman until the next morning. After reviewing the records, after suffering unexplained physical trauma in the rectal area and then a break out of some sort I went to get tested for STDS. I tested pos for herpes 2. My husband of 20+ years tested pos. BTW I have never practice anal sex. Now, after this repeated gang medical rape evidently turn sexual assault I have serious PTSD. Normally, I would just think this was just another case of medical rape; it happens all the time. However, I do have some reason to think some of this treatment may have been in retaliation for exercising my rights to free speech. I do live in Nazi U.S.A. and this is Nazi medicine, and I am an activist.

BTW I had a colonoscopy four years ago and did not go under. Much pain, but better than this, PTSD with incomplete memory. From here on out, they can deal with the pain and leave me conscience thank you.

You can find out more here

Help with Lawsuits

Anonymous — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:51:34 -0700

go to versedbusters.com and find us. There are a number of us who would be quite willing to get a notarized copy of our experiences to you.

Cost of Medical Care

Anonymous — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:44:26 -0700

Please don't forget about the enormous cost associated with sedation, not only the drug expense which is minimal, but the cost of increased nursing care (called "levels of care" each costing more than the last)after being injected with this poison. Extra time in each hospital room, e.g. preop, operating theater and PACU, which they can bill in minute by minute increments. Yes, you ARE paying for it and they want to get the most bang for the buck. Why just have 300 dollar procedure when you can pad your billing with sedation costs? You can EASILY double or even triple or more, the costs associated with any procedure just by adding in their little patient control and amnesia drug. We are doomed with this drug. There are just too many upsides to its use by medical professionals. No lawsuits from amnestic patients, unnaturally obedient patients who will go along with pretty much anything, funny, chatty patients who will entertain the staff with their uncensored private thoughts and last but not least the huge profit to be had. These people will defend the use of this drug Versed until their dying breath. Its creepy how much medical people like this drug until you think about all of the above. Add in some really sadistic caregivers who like torturing people and there you have it! The perfect drug.

I am 23 yrs old.I just had a

Anonymous — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:02:23 -0700

I am 23 yrs old.I just had a colonoscopy today. Before heading to the procedure i was reading some of these comments. I asked the doctor what kind of medication they were going to use, and he said versed, I was a little afraid of it so i asked that I not be sedated. However I started feeling pain during the colonoscopy so I asked for some medication. After a few mins I was relax but still feeling the pain,, i was aware..I remember when i was being taken to the room it was 3:05pm,, next thing I know it was 4:01pm in the recovering room.. the report stated.. Versed 3mg, Demerol 100mg.. and multiple biopsies were taken. .. It felt like I was only in for about 10 mins, yet I remember being awake. Very Weird feeling...

med student's opinion

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:05:50 -0700

I wish your comments could be on a reputable page so I could use your comments durring my wife's civil trial against her doctor who used versed on her. He went so far as do his ERCP on her without informed consent and the versed use will be another nail in his coffin. he even went so far as to overdose her because I scolded him about not telling my wife what is wrong with her and putting a stent into her and not telling her. So he overdoed her and left her in a coma, which the nurses had to sneak the antidote to her without me or the doctor seein anyuthing. then rushing her out of the hospital before the doctor exited the procedure room.

versed

Ginny — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:13:37 -0700

I too agree that the medical folks lump everybody in the same boat and give these medications to zombie us up especially when we repeat "awake and aware" . I have had a horrible experience with a "routine colonoscopy" in 1995 and was told I would not be asleep. I awakened 48 hours later and cannot remember anything during a three day period. And guess what? I have had three of the same procedures done with NO sedatives at all. No valium, no versed, and no routine phenegran/stadol combos that they give to "everybody". My friend who is a surgeon has performmed my colonoscopies and now my husband has had all his done with "no sedatives"/ We drive ourselves to the hospital and drive ourselves home and have NO NIGHTMARES afterwards. Also, I have had three children with NO MEDICATIONS and the last two at home, and people still try to convince me that it was horrible and I must be crazy. All I know is that it was the most rewarding times of my life and I was actually able to care for them from the first minute they were born. How rare! Now I am facing a procedure this Friday that is elective and they have already started the prescriptions for pain (before hand) and all this sedation stuff. That's why I have lost three nights sleep already and as you see am studying all over again what my rights as a human being is (at this time of night) becoming as knowledgeable as I can before they start the argument just to lie to you later.
The worst part by far is that you and I seem to react to mistreatement the same way. I look at this as MY CHOICE if I can tolerate the procedure why do they think they have to take my mind and make me literally sick with worry. It reminds me of Jack Nicholson in "one flew over the cocoos nest" I saw when I was in the seventh grade and never got over the treatemt using the labatomy. Seems like modern day medicine is not much better. Now, back to the facts.
We pay for this treatment and there should be some responsibility of the caregivers to do just that - be caring and help us be better - not worse.

To avoid Versed, try a Virtual Colonoscopy procedure.

Anonymous Mom — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:46:49 -0700

When I reached the age when a base line colonoscopy is recommended, I did some on-line research because of a few negative colonoscopy experiences I heard about from acquaintances. I am the type of person who wants to know what is going on at all times and wants the right to say "stop" at any time. Most of the clinics around here use Versed and Demerol. I called and spoke to one nurse at a clinic, asking detailed questions about what the procedure was like. She talked about it in vague terms, saying a patient might have slight discomfort during the procedure. I asked if a friend or relative could be in the room when the procedure was done to ensure that any expression of pain or request to stop the procedure was honored by the staff. She said absolutely not but would not say why. When I pressed for an explanation, she said it was due to the necessity for a "sterile field". I asked if the friend could stand just outside the door and again she said no way.

She told me that Versed is used because it "helps" the Demerol to work. I asked if that meant the Demerol would have no effect if used alone. She became irritated with me and said she had another phone call to answer so the conversation was over.

My research turned up the possibility of having a "Virtual colonoscopy", an almost totally non-invasive procedure where you get into a gown, walk into a room where a large Cat Scan machine (sorry if my terms are not exactly medically correct) and lie face down on the table of the machine. Prior to the appointment, I asked that only a female be the person touching me. A female assistant came in and inserted a slender tube about 4" or 5" long, into my rectum and covered me with a drape. It did not hurt at all.

Since the touching part was done, the male tech who was doing the test entered the room and did the rest of the procedure. He was very good, answering any question I asked. Then the tube delivers either air or some gas which inflates the patient's large intestine. He told me to let him know when I felt like I was so full of air (or gas) that I couldn't handle any more. I said "when", the inflation stopped, and my trip through the machine began. I was asked to lay very still as the moving table carried me forward and then back through the scanning part of the machine. It took maybe 3 or 4 minutes. No pain. No embarrassment.

The prep for it is the same as with a regular colonoscopy, lots of clear liquids and trips to the bathroom. Fortunately, my scan showed no problems. My insurance company, Regence/Blue Shield of Washington, gave me some hassles about paying for it, giving me the run-around because the imaging place doing the exam didn't have a specific correct "code" for them in the billing paperwork. At one point, they refused to pay but eventually did cover the approximately $1,500 (plus or minus) bill. I am so happy this was an option. Of course, if polyps were seen during the scan, the patient would then have to go through a regular colonoscopy to have them removed. If that had happened, I would have found someone who agreed to use Proponol (sp?) as a sedative instead of the Versed/Demerol. I was told by a nurse who formerly worked in a colonoscopy/endoscopy clinic that regular colonoscopy clinics don't use Proponol because it requires an anesthesiologist to administer it and that would be an extra unwantedcost to the clinic doctors.

My advice is to visit an office where the procedure is done, try to talk to people who have worked in a similar office, and do your research. People in the medical field are like people in any other field. Some are very ethical, kind, patient, and will work with you as much as they can. Others are jerks and have done so many procedures on patients with whom they spend a tiny amount of time (certainly not enough to feel as if they know them as a person)that the patient is an object to them, necessary to make a living. But that object might sue or at the very least, cause them to take more time and energy than they believe is owed to the E.R. visitor or the clinic procedure patient.

versed

Mary Anne — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:24:21 -0700

I had eyelid surgery 3 days ago. I have a chronic pain pre existing serious pain condition from several spinal surgeries over the years.I have been treated by pain specialists over time.During eye surgery I was given versed NO Pain meds! eventhough I kept insisting beforehand I needed a pain drip in advance.I was ignored. I was simply given Versed in high amounts.I remember the cutting, the burning and the smoke smell, I remember almost everything except when I passed out from the sheer exhaustion of pain, along the way, the bright- glowing orange light. I remember the Asian anesthetist angrily yelling at me after the surgery screaming "I give you 25 miligram of medication it could kill you!.(It may have been a higher amount?) Usual dose is 5 miligrams.Here look at paper! look at amount! Why you want so much medication!" I couldn't look. I am having flashbacks and am tearfully upset. I remember the knife going in my eye.(probably stitches) I remember the pain in my spine overwhelming me. I remember begging for pain meds, the Dr. saying "We're almost finished. The flashbacks are horribly painful! By the way, this is the second time this happened. The first was 3 mos ago when I had cataract surgery. I begged for it not to happen again, I was just not aware of the meds they gave me till now. Does anyone know the usual amount of versed used in surgery?

State Terrorism

Komboa — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:48:02 -0700

This is extremely naive. The real terrorists we have to fear with abuse of this drug work for the United States government and police agencies. They will use this to compel confessions, as part of a torture regimen, and to mask other crimes. It is extremely important to point the possibilities and the abuse evident with such a drug, and in that respect Templeton is performing a public service. We cannot be naive "sheeple", and accept the Bush/Chaney argument that government torture is acceptable because of the threat of terrorism by some radical group. State terrorism is a far worse, and more likely, prospect.

This definitely needs looking into

One of the luckier ones — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:15:48 -0700

I had a good experience with versed + fentanyl both times I've had it, but it's obvious that it is really, really bad for some people and that should be looked into. Why are the experiences so different? Is it a drug interaction with something else they're taking? Even if they didn't take any of their normal prescriptions the day of the procedure, some drugs stay in your system a long time. Is it because they can't metabolize it properly? (Liver or kidney probs?) Is it because they weren't given enough? Here's a thought: is the drug they're being given genuine? We hear of non-standard and counterfeit drugs often. Could this be the problem here? Is it age-related?

This definitely needs looking into.

Versed and Pain

Kathy — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 06:42:09 -0700

In response to the RN that works with Versed all the time, I have an obvious question.....If a person you thought was asleep having a medical procedure done on Versed comes out of it and said they were in pain throughout the entire procedure, how are they going to tell you? You stated that you don't know if a person is in pain unless they advise you that they are....Versed paralyzes people so they can be in pain, and will try to scream out for help, but are unable to speak at all. This happened to my girlfriend during a colonoscopy. They didn't give her enough or any pain meds, but dosed her up with versed. She has IBS and was in terrible pain, she tried and tried to scream out and let the Dr know, but was unable to speak or utter a sound. She said it was the most frightening experience of her life....pure torture, she will never have this done again she stated.

Versed,Sodium Pentothal,Ether,whatever......

Anonymous — Fri, 30 May 2008 19:48:18 -0700

I know this is a little off topic,but I needed to get it out.....(thanks for taking the time to listen if you decided to.)
At 8 years old,I was taken to an oral surgeon to have some teeth pulled due to overcrowding. This was in the late 60's.I was taken in to the room,sat in the chair,and then the dr. came in to see me.I was never told anything about what was going to happen,what they were going to do,nothing.I knew I had to have two teeth pulled (Orthodontist had requested it) and that was it. All I was told was that I had a choice.A shot or some gas (General Anesthesia.) I hated needles (as most children would I suspect),so I told him no needles.Then he grabbed the mask,I heard the hissing sound of the ether or whatever they were using as he put it over my face and told me to breath.Within 2-3 seconds,I could feel what was starting to happen and I freaked.I tried to push the mask away,started screaming and thrashing about,and instead of stopping to see what was up for a second,he restrained me with some help from his assistant.He held the mask in place until I passed out from sucking in the gas.Upon coming out of it,I was in a small room off to the side.The only thing I remember (and I remember it vividly) is that I got violent.So bad that I broke the clot and they had to repack my mouth. Some time later,I was taken back to this same Dr.to have two more teeth out.They thought first time was just a fluke. Same thing happened,only this time I was more violent.Blindly swinging, throwing whatever I could get my hands on,etc. I was 9. It was requested that I not be brought back anymore. From that point on,I fought vigorously as far as going to any dentist at all. I had tubes put in my ears at age 12,they put me out in the same manner.They had also pre-sedated me but it failed miserably. The Dr. and hospital staff were warned beforehand of what had occurred before,and I was restrained in the bed so that when I came out of the GA I could be more easily dealt with. To this day,I cannot take or tolerate any form of GA,conscious sedation, or such.I even have to do certain things so I can sleep. If I even consciously notice I am falling asleep,I will not be able to. I will toss and turn until I naturally fall asleep without noticing it. I have very bad dental problems now because of the episodes I went through and the abuse I suffered as a patient and as a child (at various times via my father and my misbehaving.We are now greatest of friends.)To have teeth extracted (they are all shot),I usually have to take something to calm my nerves before I go to the dentist. I take along my mp3 player to listen to while the he/she gives me a local anesthesia and a small amount of nitrous to help me stay calm and pain free. It is a shame that one Dr. and two visits to him (as well as my overhearing, at age 5, when my uncle died that "he went to sleep and never woke up.") caused me the ruination of my teeth by not dealing with things as I should have. I am lucky I have not had to have any surgery for anything as well. I am near 50 now and still have those terrible memories. Sorry to be long winded and a little off topic, but the underlying thing I have seen here is one of patients not being informed,not being listened to,not being offered options (Dr. has his way he likes,why allow change?),and Drs. retaining the "Control mentality".I am not trying to generalize,but the bad apples know who they are.This is for them.Be Well and be in control.Remember,Patients DO have rights. That is why we have lawyers.

Versed and pain

Anonymous — Thu, 15 May 2008 22:03:20 -0700

I was victimized by Versed. I did not feel any pain from my procedure, nor should I have. I elected to remain awake and alert and declined the general anesthesia. The medical professionals bypassed my wishes by injecting me with Versed. Versed IS a patient control drug. Look at the protocol and it will state that part of the objective is a "cooperative" patient. Amnesia is also desired. Too bad for the jerks that Versed didn't cause amnesia, because I could refute their spurious reasons for giving me a GA in defiance of my wishes. They LIED!!! The reason they gave me Versed was for compliance and spoliation. Medical people deserve to be defamed for acting like little demi gods and assaulting patients with this nasty drug. Sneaky, lying, arrogant, sanctimonious, condescending, delusional control freaks that they are!

Versed is NOT liquid Valium!

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 13:48:10 -0700

Versed is NOT liquid Valium! It may be in the same family, but it's very different. Similar to poppy seed bagels being in the same family as Heroin! Same family, very different.

The comments about midazolam

endoscopist — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:46:08 -0700

The comments about midazolam (versed) and it's use in endoscopy, especially colonoscopy are amusing and inaccurate in my opinion. I always thought that it's amnesic properties were a benefit to patients; I no longer believe that. I have had to counsel WAY too many patients following routine exams who are tormented by their amnesia of the event. Midazolam does indeed render most patients imobile and amnesic of a painful procedure; at least temporarily...then their momories slowly creep back in.....and this often leads to a ptsd-type syndrome. Many have suggested that patients who are amnesic are treated roughly; this is unfortunately often true. Try to explain to a family waiting for a patient having a colonoscopy why she was screaming in pain during the procedure.........they may or may not buy the "she won't remember a thing" line. Colonoscopy, in my opinion, is done quite well without sedation, especially in males (straighter colons), or with a small amount of painkiller (fentanyl).....sedation with versed is common because an imobile, amnesic patient is easier to scope.......I don't use midazolam at all anymore........if someone wants to sleep thru the procedure, we use propofol and they are completely out (costs more, but worth it IMHO)..if a patient is in pain (ie screaming), you either stop hurting them or carefully give them narcotics, you don't rely on temporary amnesia from midazolam.........After preaching the benefits of colonoscopy for years, I had one on 12/07, done by an associate who I trust; I eat lunch with her every day. And I had midazolam and it was a bad choice... Even though I do these on a routine basis, I seem to be subconsciously recalling the painful event. I can easily see why this is upsetting and potentially devastating to patients. Nexy year, at my next colonoscopy (lucky me) it's no drugs or fentanyl only. If it's too painful, we can abort the exam and schedule anesthesia.

Is Versed being used for torture?

brad — Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:00:01 -0700

Here’s my most disturbing idea yet. There are drugs which erase memory (or rather block the formation of memories while they are used.) It seems disturbingly probable to me that these might be being used for torture. Espcially considering the light of new memos giving the US the green light for torture.

If you don’t know of this class of drugs, you may have heard of “Roofies” the “date rape” drug which have been used to both make a victim pliable and also to make her forget the rape. There are stronger drugs, such as Versed, which are used in surgery.

The surgical use is quite disturbing. They want to perform a procedure on you while you will be somewhat conscious, but it is painful and upsetting and will leave mental scars — so they put you through the pain but block you from remembering it.

However, it must be obvious to those wishing to do torture that this could be applied here too. Apply the drug, then apply torture which leaves few permanent marks. The victim would awaken unaware they had been tortured or what they had confessed to. They could not testify later about their torture, they would not even know to.

It’s hard not to think that this would be a more “humane” form of torture, in the same way the surgical use of the drugs is humane. After all, you just want the information, why leave the victim with psychic scars, as there always are from torture. This is frightening because it might make the public much more accepting of torture. And on top of that, how will we ever find out if torture is going on? Only from the torturers themselves.

This is just the start of a trend. Tools like “brain fingerprinting” already exist which cause no pain but examine your brain to find out if you remember something you are being shown, or if it’s the first time you are seeing it. People have already suggested this is so benign as to be suitable for airport screening!

I predict we’ll see newer and “better” torture and interrogation techniques in the near future. Better brain scans. Polygraphs that actually work. More powerful drugs that affect not just memory but compliance. Perhaps eventually nanomachines that reach in and target brain centers to create compliance.

Some of these may already exist — though I think not too many or our intelligence communities would be doing a better job on terrorism than they are.

But they will exist. How will we as a society cope with them? We already seem willing to forget about the prohibitions on torture in the constitution and international law. We’ll pretend the prohibitions don’t even exist for these new forms.

The only way to avoid them will be to work soon for strong laws and eventually an explicit constitutional amendment protecting the right of privacy in our thoughts. And that will be a long time coming.

Update: More stories of Versed and other memory drugs in my new memory tag.