Brad Ideas - Fix some eBay feedback problems - Comments

Nice, Brad

Dave — Thu, 08 May 2008 15:59:06 -0700

Those are some AWESOME ideas Brad, did you submit them to eBay? I really wish they'd take your advice.

-Dave

Actually, I think YOU're the idiot

SellerANDBuyer — Thu, 08 May 2008 15:57:46 -0700

Most people leave honest feedback, and there isn't much of a knee-jerk reaction if you did your job as a seller. Holding your feedback 'for ransom' isn't cool, and it isn't good business.
I can't understand why you'd support this type of a system unless you're one of those rip-off artists holding people's feedback for ransom and then leaving them negative feedback after you shipped them a 50Meg ripped MPEG of LotR when the item description was "NIB Lord of the Rings Trology DVD Collector's Set"
Go insult people who aren't 50 times smarter than you, or at least post something half-way intelligent, instead of pointing out to the entire world how stupid you are. If your parents read that post, it would probably make them cry.

Ebay Selling/Buying

Carol — Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:07:32 -0700

I am looking at this blog because I wanted to see what others have to say. I don't feel that Ebay really protects anyone. I have had problems as a buyer and a seller. Currently I have sold a brand new computer at auction and a brand new pair of golf shoes. Both buyers didn't pay. I have had to wait to file the unpaid item and after I have tried to contact the buyer several time. I even requested the buyers phone number only to find out that it was bogus. So now I have to wait for time to go by so I can get my listing and final valuation credit. Why can't ebay wait to get the final valuation fee until after the item is shipped or paid for by the buyer? Now I am out money and I can't relist until the credits hit my account or I won't be credited? So this is all wasting my time. I have already left deserved negative feedback for both of these buyers because using bogus info is a violation of ebay policy, and also I have tried for over a week to ask for payment or if they even wanted the item any longer. No contact. So that is deserved bad feedback. I always leave feedback for buyers after they pay. Sometimes I don't get feedback in return, sometimes I contact them after wards and ask if they are happy and remind them about leaving feedback.
As a buyer, I purchased an item from a seller in scotland. I paid and I never received the item. it took forever, I relized later that there was a time limit to file any complaints and I just got in under the wire, I never got any shipping number and I had bad non existant communication from the seller, I didn't get my money back until after ebay got involved and I did leave bad feedback for the seller and he left neg feedback for no reason. so the system is flawed. Everyone should just have a little respect. You win an auction you pay. not in 7 days, you pay right away, you are sitting there in front of your computer when the auction ends, pay now. Leave feedback. don't be rude. It would be a better place but aparently there a bunch of morons around signing up for ebay accounts just waiting to screw with you. If the buyer has a 0 after their user name, I just don't trust them and don't even want to accept bids from them. a few bad apples really do spoil the whole bunch!

Trouble with a Seller

Anonymous — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:34:47 -0700

I won an auction for a scooter recently. The seller had a number of ways to pay and I chose a certified check.
There were no stipulations other than full payment was expected in 7 days.

The seller provided his phone number and I called him to arrange for the pick up and payment of my item.

The seller kept pressing for cash at pick up, but because of the cost of the item, I did not want to carry that
kind of cash on a long trip. And I wanted a paper trail of a more official type, other than some hand written
receipt.

The seller did not want to accept the certified check and release the item at the same time. I told him I was not going to "give" anyone that kind of money and not take my item. He gave me some B.S. story about having a large certified check written to him and they even went to the bank of origin together and the bank would not cash the check because it was written within the same 24 hour period. (I later checked with this bank and they have no such policy)
I told him I wasn't going to leave the check with him. I reminded him that a certified check is the same as "cash".
He made another B.S. story about I might cancel the check....sheeeesh! A cashiers check cannot be cancelled by the issuer unless that same check is taken back to the bank of origin.
He finally agreed to the certified check and release of the item. He said I would have to provide my driver's license and social security number........ WHHHHHHAT?????? No one gets my social security number!!! This guy was just being a bully and seemed was not going to accept anything but cash. Then why make an auction with alternatives as he did?
I told him that was inappropriate information to ask for. I told him to forget the deal. He told me "fine" he was going to leave "appropriate" feedback. I told him "the great thing about ebay is, so can I!

So I hung up. A few days went by and I kept getting email about paying for the item. And all of this mail acted like he was clueless about the phone converesation. I believe it was his way of appearing innocent for the ebay support staff if trouble came. I told him to knock it off and to leave me alone. Any further email would be considered harrassment on his part.

A few more days go by and he writes me that he is putting my name on the vehicle title! What an idiot! I told him that I leaving appropriate feedback for him....and I did. I left feedback that stated "seller tried to solicit SS# for vehicle sale. Avoid this seller!"

Only a couple of hours later I get an ebay message that the seller has requested a mutual withdrawal of feedback.
So I did so. I should have checked what feedback he left for me first. He actually published my real name in the feedback!!!! OMG this seller is a real moron! So....what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Even though the feedback is mutually withdrawn, that only reflects in your "rating" and each of us had 100% positive feedback. Well.....the real feedback still appears on your feedback record for all to see! I found the place where you can actually reply to feedback. I left a reply that stated "his name -is a liar. I offered driver's license for I.D. Seller is a troublemaker!" Yes I published his name after he did it to me. All the time I also was reporting his actions to ebay. Of course I got the complimentary form letter from them, but no one has addressed my problem.

I think this guy's account should be closed and ban him if possible. And if I get banned for publishing his name, then so be it.

People like him are just bullies and do not belong on ebay. And my wife's idea I like also. He is just a small individual who is trying to get in the last word and it cost him his reputation in the end. He had a score of 350 some transactions....I only have 22.....He has a lot more to lose by acting as he did.

The biggest problem...

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 06:26:40 -0700

The biggest problem is people like you come along, they see someone with great feedback, they trust it and then when an issue arises, all hell breaks loose and you find the need to find someone or someone to blame and heads are going to roll, etc. Let me point out several mistakes you made that I read conclusively in your rant:
1. The guy said he tried to email you and you automatically concluded he was a liar. I can tell you now that not ALL EMAILS get to their destination. With spam blockers and all kinds of software now being used, it is very likely he emailed you and some attempts to go directly to your email were sent to bulk or deleted completely. He may have then emailed you via eBay's email forwarding system and I can tell you that I've checked that also and found some that never made it to my email's inbox. Calling someone a liar and putting up that wall of distrust starts the primary line being drawn there.
2. I read what you wrote about the incident and it sounded confusing to ME, so I'm sure it was to your seller also. It was like, this happened and there was confusion with UPS and they picked up and sent it back, etc, etc...you weren't even clear telling exactly what happened with this thing. It doesn't sound like the guy is being fraudlent more than it does confused as I was when I read this. You say UPS picked it up without any inspection and sent it back to the guy? I can tell you now that having worked for UPS in the past, the item is taken to UPS and inspected, NOT sent back to the sender, so that all honestly doesn't come off making you sound good. I'm not saying you're lying, but your version of the events seems tapered to you.
3. You went right for the feedback threat and then you assumed it was that feedback threat that made him finally email you. Sometimes people do not understand cause and effect interacting with logic...could it BE a coincidence? I'm pretty sure it could have been.
4. You jump on that dreaded feedback snowball deal where you use the fact that a seller has ANY OTHER negative feedbacks during that time and somehow correlate them with the fact that he MUST be wrong and cheated other people. Those other feedbacks I'm sure have NOTHING to do with your issue other than someone might have felt vindicated to leave them in what's known as the snowball effect for feedbacks - one person leaves one and then someone else sees it and right or wrong, if there is issue, they leave one to because in their mind and you had the SAME THOUGHT - if enough people bash this guy, we'll get him kicked off eBay. Suddenly getting this guy kicked off eBay becomes the focus and you lose focus of the actual issue...when did the original issue not become focus?
5. You're outright blaming eBay and the feedback system for this issue and it seems to me this is unfortunate since the guy had great feedback and so did you and it seems this is more of an isolated circumstance - not him running some kind of campaign to fraud people. If he was doing that, his feedback NEVER would get to 99.4% - more people than just you would be leaving negative feedback.
6. The bottom line is this belongs in a court of law to determine the outcome if Paypal was unable to resolve the issue. It would seem to me that if the item was sent back to him, and you did the follow-up properly with PayPal, PayPal would have reimbursed you already - why wouldn't they? THis seems to be something you should be taking up with PayPal instead of focusing anger and agression in getting this guy kicked off eBay. If you failed to file the claim in time, then that is your own fault for not following through...reading back to the issues you had with UPS picking up the item and not inspecting it and all that, it seems there is a lot you did wrong that you aren't taking any responsibility for. That's not to say this guy is right for keeping your money AND getting back the item, but it seems there was a lot more you could have done and now since you failed to do so, you're on here blaming it on everyone else and not taking any mature responsibility for your own actions or lack thereof.

Syl is an idiot

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 06:04:09 -0700

Syl, you are a complete idiot and one of the primary reasons eBay is engaging in this illogical act of suicide with its new policy. Whiny idiots like you who come up with these stupid comments are simply a hoot...so your ONLY obligation is to pay for an item and that's it? So if you have to return it and send back an empty box or something that OBVIOUSLY isn't what you purchased to scam the seller, then that is OK because at that point, you'd have received your positive feedback right? What a dunce, lol.

Ironic statement...

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:54:15 -0700

Is it any wonder why 25% of the power sellers left Ebay for other sales channels in the last two quarters?

It's ironic that you would ask that while bashing eBay for other things among them 'feedback retaliation' The reason most quoted for those leaving eBay over that time period and the reason I am personally leaving eBay (Silver Power Seller) mostly relates to their new feedback policy that PREVENTS retaliatory feedback. The fact is, retaliatory feedback works both ways and now you'll only see it working one way and sellers aren't staying around to enjoy that mess.

Was the product OK?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:48:32 -0700

I have to ask a few questions about this...
1. When you got what you paid for, was the product OK?
2. I realize getting it that late is an issue, but honestly, buy the emails, the guy had been telling you he was sick and unable to leave the house - we can't verify that and can only assume different - I didn't really look into it, but he seems to otherwise have great feedback...I just wondered what you had to actually gain leaving a poor feedback?
The reason I ask is that I get people who take 3 or 4 weeks to pay, some nearly a month after NPB was filed and everything...and I NEVER leave them negative feedback. Retaliatory feedback works both ways.
3. I wanted to point out that it seemed more of an effort on your part to create an entire web page and talk about it on here than it was to deal with the problem...I guess if I had the same problem, I'd simply have filed a PayPal claim and moved on after 3 weeks...I don't really find the need to leave those types of feedbacks. They never resolve anything.
4. What if you had never emailed and asked about the item and 4 days later after payment left a negative? WOuld that be fair? Happened to me. Just making a point that it goes both ways...I honestly don't think this guy should have left you a negative though.

My GAWD - send that to eBAY, would like to add...

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:35:14 -0700

Your statement was ALMOST PERFECT, but one thing I think you could have included in this awesome rant of STFU to whining buyers is a take on the s/h...I constantly hear buyers complaining that someone has overpriced shipping AND HANDLING costs...yet the costs are listed prior to them bidding!!! Are buyers THAT LAZY they can't review the s/h cost and add it to their desired bid to figure out what they'd be paying for an item? Can they not read the auction or email and ask if someone combines s/h costs? This goes along the lines of a sellers policies that buyers ignore until time comes to bitch and complain. I just wanted to point out how awesome your rant was and how much I enjoyed it as a Silver Power Seller who is quitting on eBay due to their newdumbland policy...but mentioning s/h costs goes along what you've already mentioned so aggressively. Thanks!

I had something similar happen to me...

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:27:04 -0700

But I as the seller and maybe you can view this from the seller's eyes and see a whole different story.
I had a guy buy an item from me that he needed by the weekend and he said he'd pay for it with PayPal right away after the auction ended and he did...the problem was the payment came to me UNCLEARED. Not all payments clear right away via Paypal. Sometimes PayPal puts a hold on the payment especially if it is coming from your checking account and then it clears later. This guy like you was upset with me because I did not send the item that day as I told him I could...because the payment didn't clear. That promise is on the assumption that I got PAID, not an unclear payment. I'm guessing you two ran into the same issue and he didn't send it because it hadn't cleared yet and you're there waiting on your end thinking it was paid when in fact it wasn't. Unfortunately, buyers like you raise hell about this and you don't get that sometimes this happens and that uncleared payment NEVER CLEARS...this is known as a SCAM which appens a lot on eBay...PayPal is very clear that you should not send ANY item until the payment clears and maybe you should have been more considerate and checked with PayPal until you hammered this person.

By the way, I know you're all about feeling good for your tenacity in calling PayPal and eBAy, but the fact is, that is NOT by any means why you won your case with Paypal. It is very simple, you paid for the item and the guy since he hadn't sent it had no tracking to show you received it, so they simply gave you your money back. EVERYONE and ANYONE can do the same thing without making a phone call.

None of that means you were scammed. Most sellers on eBay are very knowledgeable that all you have to do is file a claim and get your money back regardless if there is no proof an item has been sent, so the idea that someone would waste their time in an effort to scam you seems very implausible.

I had a guy 3 days after payment of an item leave negative feedback calling me a scammer - at the time I had 1000+ positive feedbacks and NO negatives...3 days...the item said 'ships in 2 days or more' and media mail was his choice of delivery which can take a few weeks, but 3 days later I was called a scammer with negative feedback because he hadnt' gotten it yet....erratic behavior from buyers have a LOT to do with excessive negative feedback.

Are you that stupid?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:15:50 -0700

After reading your comments, you just said that if a seller got scammed by someone, that's no business of yours...haha...what if YOU were the one that scammed him? What about the one that scammed him? I bet they paid also right away...should that person have received positive feedback for their payment and then been able to scam the seller and the seller can not leave negative feedback afterwards...you answered your own ignorant question dumbass.

What more is required by the buyer?

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:13:35 -0700

Obviously this is the biggest issue concerning feedback that buyers simply don't seem to get or WANT to get...do you honestly think that after paying for your item there is nothing more you can do that violates eBay policy? What if after the transaction didn't work out you agreed to send back the item and sent back an empty box? I'd certinaly think THAT would violate eBay policy and be deserved of a negative feedback don't you? Leaving negative feedback without contacting the buyer in any way violates eBay policy. Paying is NOT by any means the final obligation of a buyer and thinking that only demonstrates the ignorance of eBay purchasers who complain that they should be given positive feedback simply for paying.

Big Vs Small invalid argument

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:09:39 -0700

That's an invalid argument. If someone is selling that much and you only have 100 transactions and you're buying from a seller who has 10,000 and his feedback is that high, then it SHOULD take that many of you to conversely effect his feedback...what do you propose, that your feedback count for 100 people????

Wow, you obviously don't sell on eBay...

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:07:32 -0700

Wow, that's a LOT of information to fill out for EACH item as a seller. You obviously do not sell on eBay. Can you imagine that if I sell 200 to 300 items or yet 2000 to 3000 items a week, I'd have to hire help just to do feedback!

Shipping calculator

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 04:39:34 -0700

Does that shipping calculator calculate in handling costs and packaging?
What would truly eliminate what buyers call higher shipping costs is buyers simply reading the listed shipping costs and deciding if they are too high or not to bid on and moving on if they feel they are! How is that so difficult? I remember a day when buyers reviewed the overall cost of an item including the bid and the s/h and decided if their bid was worth what they were purchasing...now buyers are so lazy they can't even view the shipping and HANDLING costs.

A better idea is simply to have the s/h next to your bid and when you enter a bid, show the overall cost at the time of bid for that item. Then you'd know how much money you were bidding altogether WITH shipping and handling. This problem seems to be the easiest to resolve.

Fix some eBay feedback problems

brad — Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:56:21 -0800

Like many, I am interested in reputation systems, and eBay has built the largest public reputation system. Many have noted how feedback on eBay is overwhelmingly positive — a 97% positive rating would be a reason to be wary of a seller.

It’s also noted that people do this because they are scared of revenge feedback — I give you a negative, you do it back to me. One would think that since the buyer’s only real duty is to send the money that the seller should provide positive feedback immediately upon receipt of that money, but they don’t.

Some fixes have been proposed, including:

letting you see the count of total auctions the party has been buyer or seller in, so you can see how many resulted in no feedback at all. Right now only eBay knows how large that number is.
double-blind feedback. That is to say that feedback is not revealed until both parties have entered it, or if only one party enters it, after the feedback period has expired.
Marking revenge feedback, ie. putting a mark next to negatives that were a response to an outgoing negative.

Thus you could have very low fear of revenge feedback and there would be no argument about who should go first.

This idea’s fairly obvious, so like many other obvious ideas about eBay one wonders if eBay doesn’t feel some benefit to themselves from not doing it, though it’s hard to see. I’m also curious as to why eBay doesn’t offer a “going, going, gone” auction where the auction closes only after 5 minutes with no bidding. That seems to be in the interests of sellers (and eBay which gets a cut of the selling price) and it’s certainly not something they are unaware of.

The only proposition I’ve heard is that eBay has decided that there is a positive value to itself (and possibly sellers) from bid-sniping, the process of bidding preemptively in the last minute of an auction to not give other live bidders (who didn’t use the automatic rebidder) a chance to come in with more. The only way this could be good woudl be if Snipers deliberately overbid in order to trump anything. Any research or thoughts on this? It may also be the case that the sniped auctions are more “fun,” or more of a contest. And finally having fixed closing times does facilitate participating in multiple auctions for the same thing.

I have also posted updated eBay thoughts and an even simpler system which eliminates revenge and in fact now have an eBay tag for all eBay related posts, including thoughts on eBay’s solution to all this.