Brad Ideas - Hybrid RVs, more RV notes - Comments

ram air wind generator

Anonymous — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:48:54 -0700

I like the solar roof Idea, there is a large surface area for that. But I had an idea for a ram air wind generator for generating power for the batteries, if the regenerative braking is not enough. The unit could be small like the ac caps on your standard rv's. The forward facing area designed to channel air toward the center, housing a fan, or impeller, connected to a generator,then on to the batteries. The road traveling would gernerate the wind, and maybe with some minor clutching a highly efficient power generator could suply a generous amount of power.
Now I am no expert, and maybe my idea for a ram air generator is just a pipe dream. Maybe someone can clue me in if I am way off base, and "BTW" there are hybrid busses and hydrogen power cell busses being tested in Canada.

Hybrid RV, Issues and conclusions

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:24:02 -0700

While reading this blog article and comments I noticed several things:
1) there are a lot of people intrested in a product such as this
2) most are concerned with how the power will be generated, and the weight of the vehicle issue
3) other energy conserving devices

Well, as for the being interested in such a product, my wife and I will purchase something like this in the future (after we retire in 20 years or so) but we would rent one much sooner if it where available. I do not find the initial price of such a vehicle an issue because they tend to be quite costly anyways and with the price of fuel being what it is the difference will not be much when doing a lot of traveling like we will.

As for how the power will be generated and the weight of the vehicle issues, as a few posters have noted bio-diesel generators/power assist engine or an ethanol (not E85) assisting engine would most likely give the best economy. As for the wieght issue reducing or removing the black water storage via a composting device (which would produce high nutrient "dirt") would be the first step. Next would be reducing wieght by the use of carbon fiber and other composite materials. Not to mention reducing the fresh water resivoir and the grey water tank (or removing it completely)

Finally, other energy conserving devices, another poster stated that "LEDs are good, though if they had wanted to conserve power they would have gone to vibration-protected flourescents a long time ago as they are even lower power than LEDs, and cheaper." (I would like to know your source) I would have to disagree with you on this LEDs last upto 60,000 hours and it is possible to find regular shaped bulbs that work in your home that only use 1.5 watts instead of 13 watts of a CFL with increased luminecence. As for the cost issue yes they do cost about twice as much but they last twice as long as well so it all works out better in the end taking into account the energy savings involved. As for other energy saving devices there are thousands on the market that would help reduce weight and energy consumption. One other device that maybe included is a wind power generator, which tend to be more efficent than solar for its size. where as solar could be used while traveling for powering AC and possibly charging batteries if needed.

For more information on going green please see my blog at: Going Green?

Some issues..

Alan — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:24:33 -0700

Hybrid RV powerplants sound great. But they have to be adopted by industry first I belive(comercial trucking and bussing) as the RV industry isn't big enough to get any sort of economy of scale. Current RV's are build on either heavy Bus or Truck, or light duty Van/Pick chassis. Also for many RV users it wouldn't save much gas money (even at $4 prices).

Why? Go look at a used RV. Lots of 15 year old RV's with 50k or less miles on them. The addative cost of a diesel engine (when I bought my class C it was 44k with gas and 55k with diesel) wasn't worth the extra fuel economy gained. This was before diesel had gotten totally out of hand (back when it was about the same as mid grade).

Someone suggested dumping the sink in the bathroom. I thought this way too for a long time. But many times the kitchen sink is being used for food prep, washing dishes or letting dishes dry, I don't want my kids washing dirty hands in that sink... But for some it might be fine.\

LED lights are great, as someone suggested. But they are quite pricy, especially with the number of lights in an RV. This is why you don't see much adoption of them yet. Face it, I can run the 12v lights in my RV for quite a while off of two Trojan T-105's. You see a lot of LED lights in sailboats that people have outfitted for liveaboard at anchor, as power is very scarce. Most RV's don't live where power is scarce, they plug in to a 50amp supply and away they go. Boondockers tend to be far more watt aware, but they are a much smaller segment, and usually just need enough battery to run the furance through the night, in the morning they fire up a small gennie to charges the batts while they let Mr. Coffee do his work.

RV's have lots of room for improvement but I think industry consolidation and perhaps a new player will have to take it to the next step. No RV's that I am aware of are actually Mass produced. They are made much more like a trailer. Each one is a bit of a snowflake, even things like wire routing can change from unit to unit. I think a more modular approach, with a much higher amount of automation is requried for RV's to make the next leap

Propulsion for a custom bus conversion

Anonymous — Sat, 24 May 2008 18:24:07 -0700

Just saw this for propulsion, it could probably be adapted:

http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/bae_prod_eis_hybridrive.html

life with future high mileage RVs

Adams — Sat, 17 May 2008 14:14:28 -0700

I'm planning to live in an "RV" as my home, because to me, "home ownership" means I don't need permission (a permit) to change it, and I don't have to pay someone (taxes) for the "privelege" of staying in it. I don't want Uncle Sam living with me.
Johnston hopes he can get 31mpg in his RV with a Range Rover engine.
Sorry Johnston, it's the amount of work the engine has to do to move that big box.
Fortunately, the fraudulent "energy shortage" is quite easy to overcome, if you're mechanically inclined. There's a lot of ways to build an external combustion engine that will run on anything that produces heat, including an all fuel furnace. Even a simple steam engine could take you cross country on nothing but the fuel you find along the way: pieces of deadwood, burnable garbage, leftover deep fat fry oil (yum!), tree moss, dried kudzu... don't know how you'd figure "MPG", but do you even care? It's unlimited and free for the taking. And if the EPA complains about green house gases, ask them where you can get some nice, warm, gas free nuclear waste (Moo ha ha ha)

flywheel "batteries": sorry, bad idea

Adams — Sat, 17 May 2008 13:48:48 -0700

I would suggest you wait a few more years for the new nanotech batteries, carrying about 20x today's best. The problems with high energy flywheels are:
1) they explode like kiloton bombs when disturbed, like if you bump into something
2) expensive exotic engineering is required for the extreme operating conditions
(150,000rpm, transfering megawatts of energy in/out of a perfect hermitic vacuum)
3) they're super gyroscopes -- they don't tip when you go around banked turns
4) super gyroscopes do tip slowly on their own when you're standing still, because
the earth is also spinning. In 24 hours, your vehicle will do a slow rollover ;-)
5) they are huge, especially with decoupling gimbals to overcome the gyroscopic effect.
6) charge and discharge cycles create huge reaction forces (this is how the English beat
the Germans in their Sopwith Camels -- they could literally turn on a dime just by
revving their engines).
Otherwise, we'd have been using flywheels a long time ago, wouldn't we?
But keep the ideas coming; there are no technical problems, really, only political ones.

Hybrid/Nexgen RV

huwman — Wed, 14 May 2008 10:18:52 -0700

There was a very interesting article in the WSJ yesterday about the status of the RV industry and the hard times it is presently experiencing. In response to your "business ventures" comment I am interested to know if you have advanced your interest in a more modern RV since January? Did anyone respond they were interested? Are you still looking to build a new RV business? It occured to me there might be a very viable busiess here if the alternative energy angle is at the forefront. A "green" RV company would be very appealing to the Yuppies about to retire.

Torque (better article)

Anonymous — Sun, 04 May 2008 20:45:21 -0700

The link below has better towing info:

http://jalopnik.com/cars/la-auto-show/la-auto-show-preview-2009-chevrole...

Torque

Anonymous — Sun, 04 May 2008 20:38:52 -0700

Dunno, I think this might do the trick from a towing standpoint:

http://www.soultek.com/clean_energy/hybrid_cars/hybrid_car_types/GM_Sier...

Hybrid Travel Trailers

Unknown — Sun, 04 May 2008 04:49:00 -0700

Well, interesting topic Brad...obviously it is also a pressing matter considering crude will never be cheap again, and probably won't stop at 200 bucks a flippin barrel...Hybrid engines lack giddie up, and some truck hybros do have horse power, but lack in necessary torque to manage backweight or load hauls. RV's weigh so much, i wonder if it is feasible in the next 10 years to develop them.

So here's my 2 cents...I part own, and broker mobile luxury toilet trailers across the southwest US. I travel anywhere from Guadalajara, MX to Spokane Wa...right now I pull these trailers with a 1 ton...and ohh by the way I do use alternative fuel....bio diesel...the exhaust odor is awful, but I can refine it at about 1.90 a gallon

I am currently developing restrooms and showers on wheels, converted from an old liner I stripped...of course i want to run it on bio diesel, but the hybrid technology is quite interesting...let's wait a few years and see what happens! thanks

Hybrid RV? Put a car top camper on a Prius...

CarTopCamper — Fri, 02 May 2008 10:13:39 -0700

A roof top tent on a Prius will get you a high MPG RV. See: http://www.cartopcamper.com

Then take it to the next level (with a pair of overload springs and hitch.) In development is a reasonably lightweight camp kitchen that mounts to a trailer hitch receiver called the HitchKitchen. See: http://www.hitchkitchen.com.

This combo should get you a 40+ mpg semi-self-contained RV.

New Info??

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:05:05 -0800

Just found this: http://coachmenrv.com/assets/pdf/news/2007-08-30-Environmentally-Friendl...

future rv's

tim johnston — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:08:01 -0800

Brad, I liked your comments on the hybrid rv but I am waiting for the new ford diesel engine. The 2009 F150 is supposed to be available with a 4.4 liter high tech engine derived from a smaller diesel that is presently available on Range Rovers and in the Range Rover the smaller engine gets 31 mpg. I want a classB with that engine getting mid 20's with good horses and torc. Do you think we will see it?

Tennesee Johnston

The "Perferct" RV?

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:35:54 -0800

Should be:

*Small-- 19-20' (RoadTrek size)
*Carbon/composite body, Aluminium frame for lowest possible weight
*Flywheel batteries (highest watts per pound vs lithium, etc)
*electric motors on all 4 wheels, regenerative braking
*small/standby hydrogen generator--about 1/4 of maximum power (60mph) demand
*30% Efficient solar roof with pull out solar Awnings (left & right)
*Aerogel insulation throughout vehicle & fridge
*LEDs for All lighting (headlights included)
*heated/composting type toilet with outside removable tray
*double pane low-E glass windows, Aerogel insulated sun roof
*run-flat tires--no spare carried to save space & weight
*all electric appliances

Is it possible? Would you buy one?

Chassis

Blackjax — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:50:20 -0800

These might be overkill, but for those looking for potential chassis and powertrains for a custom job, you might consider some of these:

http://www.paccar.com/company/environmental/KW_T270_hybrid.asp
http://www.peterbilt.com/index_new_mor.asp?file=2100
http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/ProductsServices/Hybrid/SystemsOverview/Hy...

And there are some lightweight material concepts here:

http://www.lightweight-structures.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=...
http://www.ccvbc.com/composite_panel_systems.html

Hybrid RVs, more RV notes

brad — Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:43:06 -0700

Every time I take an RV trip (ie. each Burning Man) I come up with more observations. The biggest one is that it cost $360 in gasoline to go from the bay area to the black rock desert, about 800 miles. And that’s at a price still well below world price. The RV owner said he was planning to get out of the business, people no longer want to pay the gas price.

So why is it taking so long to produce a hybrid RV? Hybrid cars are great of course, but trucks and RVs are what really suck gas and need the improved efficiency. And they have the room for larger and more unusual engine configurations. Most of all, RVs also mostly come with expensive generators and batteries, and a hybrid RV would of course have a super duper power plant and batteries and inverters, presuming the engine was efficient at lower revs. The Hybrid RV’s power plant could also be a backup generator when parked at the non-moving home. Probably make the most sense with diesel fuel, or as I have suggested before, even the highly efficient stirling engine. (Stirlings are big, and take time to warm up, but an RV with batteries is fine with this.)

Every RV’s shower has this hose based showerhead with an on-off dial with a slight leak. Our camp built a much nicer shower using a standard kitchen sprayer. A kitchen sprayer with a lock-on would be much better and would make it easier to conserve water by letting you pulse water where you need it when rinsing.

Cleaning the RV, especially when back from the desert, is hard. RV renters charge fat cleaning deposits and fees. Why doesn’t some company that hires out housekeepers do an RV service. You could come to them. Drive in, and a team of 5 attacks your RV, cleaning it in minutes. Do it at a car wash to also handle the outside if needed. Espcially after Burning Man there’s a business here.

I’ve said these before: Paper towel racks, built-in soap dispensers, inverters, flourescent lights. Why aren’t these everywhere in the RV world, instead of being rare?

Stabilizers jacks are great, but how about something simpler, some way to lock the springs or shocks (of course with an interlock to prevent starting the vehicle!) And while slide-outs are great, why do we never see flip out beds the way pop-top campers have, or a pop-up on the cab-over bed? (Most RVs don’t have any spare wall space except in the master bedroom, which does limit the flip-out bed concept. You also almost never see murphy beds.) Flip-out beds don’t take away your dinette or couch as do the extra beds commonly found. And how about a seat belt design for use on the beds for safe sleeping while driving? You can do this now but it doesn’t seem super safe.