Brad Ideas - Hybrid RVs, more RV notes - Comments

Hybrid RV

Ty — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:22:24 -0700

Try a Gulf Stream Montaj.They're green and have luxury amenities of any other Class A RV.They're supposed to be very livable.The gas engine kicks in when the hybrid engine runs out of power.They go about 25 mpg on gas and can be driven like a RoadTrek,SUV,or a Class C RV . Go to http://www.gulfstreamcoach.com/index.htm.

super efficient luxury airstream

Scott — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:58:38 -0700

ram air wind generator. Hi I have also thought about that idea. Its sounds like a very god idea as you have access to 50-60 mph winds which can generate lots of electricity. I have started the process of starting from scratch with a new 30 foot airstream classic shell and am going to retrofit completely with upscale and efficient appliances. I am toying with all electric with solar and maybe even dc air conditioners . Lots to think about but I know it can be done and be renewable and very comfortable. Keep thinking. From experience camping is where I have got most of my ideas. Good luck. Scott

RV

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:34:59 -0700

Its all cost vs ROI, the RV builders have no incentive to vastly improve the motorhome designs and functions. The people who are spending $500k plus want all the technology but there is a limit to the actual cost vs perceived value to the customer, would I pay an extra $40k for a hybrid drive system that gets 10% better mileage,no. Like all vehicles RV's lose a tremendous amount of their value at the time of purchase, so where is the pay back in spending extra at time of purchase. I have a class A that is 5 years old and has lost most of its value even though the miles are low and the condition is very good.
The market for RV's is very low right now and those that are trying to sell are really hurting because of low resale value, its all supply and demand. Lowering operating cost and cost of ownership will bring more people into the market, but as long as the cost of RV ownership and use remains high its going to be a hard time selling them.
Fuel prices effect everyone, even the high end class A owners.

SINKS

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:39:25 -0700

There are health laws requiring a toilet to have a sink nearby, but not used for food preparation. So, 2 sinks are necessary, one for food the other for toilet use.

the extra wind drag would

Scotty — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 04:23:19 -0700

the extra wind drag would increase load on the engine. It would be more effichent / lightweight to simply put a second or bigger alternater on the engine. plus that whay it would still generate power at idel

Sprinter - Winnebago View

Anonymous — Tue, 19 May 2009 14:24:50 -0700

I was fortunate enough to get a good deal on a View. It was almost a year old and only had 5K on it. The diesel engine gets over 17 mpg at 60 mph. As for the little vanity sink I believe it would be nicer to have a larger one, but I would not do away with it. As said above it provides for space above and below. The shower is larger than my older Ford V10 Shasta. Also the shower door is inovative. As for enough hot water, I use the 110 electric hot water heater, it keeps the water hot throughout the shower and you don't run out of hot water. I truly enjoy my 2006 View.

Whops... that was supposted to say "much later than many of you"

IgorD — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:51:19 -0700

Sorry, I misspoke... my first sentence was supposed to say "... and in my case much LATER than many of you".

Just had this idea as well

IgorD — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:48:35 -0700

Well like everyone one else here I had this brilliant idea... and in my case much longer than many of you. The 3 point summary a few posts above mine does a good job at identifying the main points of the discussion... although I have some thoughts and comments, none are really substantive. However, I do have a question.

Is anybody doing something about this? Anyone know anybody high up in the chain at an RV company?

Love this, and your stirling's comin...

gadgetsage — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:17:04 -0800

Great ideas abounding, I must say, I do like the cut of many jibs here, something to note on the sprinter diesels is that they will only use the special low-sulfur diesel, not bio or veg oil after 2006 I think, so be aware of that...

The stirling engine is a great idea, especially if you coupled it with a magnetic suspension axle for almost zero friction...

There's a solar paint being developed, not sure of it's efficiency.

Anyone know of a way to attach and utilize banks of smaller electric motors (say 2-3 horsepower) to assist / hybridize a standard transmission engine configuration? I have access to a fair number of free ones if I could only figure out; a) a way to easily hook them into the drivetrain that wouldn't cause more problems than it solved, and b) whether that would be efficient enough to be worth doing... I'm a backyard engineer with no training for the math of that sort of thing... I can weld a little, so it's possible I'll feel crazy or po'd enough as gas prices rise again to eventually try this...

this is keeping me up way too late, is there a way to subscribe to this... lets see... must be a way to do it w/google, it does just about everything else...

Electric heating not efficient

brad — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:07:06 -0800

Almost all heating processes are highly efficient — if looked at in the wrong way. Saying electrical heat is 100% efficient is very much the wrong way, because electricity has to be generated. The normal ways to generate it involving using heat — usually 3 times as much heat as you will get out of it if you use it for heat.

With solar panels electricity is generated without heat, but the sunlight also contains lots of heat. If it is heat you want from sunshine, there are much more efficient ways to get it than to use solar panels and electric heaters.

Electrical heating efficiency, 1-2 MPG gain worth the cost?

andrewinalaska — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:07:37 -0800

George, your assumption that using electricity to heat water is "probably a 10% efficent process" is incorrect. Electric heating, whether you're talking about space-heating or water-heating, is in fact a 100% efficient process. (Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_heater#Environmental_and_efficienc...)
This might change your analysis of PV solar vs. passive solar water heating. Your idea of using exhaust heat has a lot of possibilities for sure.

As far as whether a 1-2 MPG gain is worth the additional cost in an RV, consider the following comparison:

- A 2001 Toyota Prius cost a base price of $19,995 and had an EPA estimated fuel consumption of 41 MPG (highway).

- Compare this to a 2001 Saturn S-Series Sedan. At a base price of $11,485, EPA highway tests found this car to get as high as 40 MPG. Anecdotally, I have experience with these S-Series sedans getting right around 43 MPG on the highway. Or maybe compare to a 2001 Honda Civic DX. At a base price of $12,760, the EPA estimated fuel economy is 37 MPG highway.

Here you're looking at a very small increase in fuel economy (1-4 MPG) in something that already gets 35-40 MPG so you'll see an increase of 2.5% in the case of the Saturn (or 17% in the case of the Honda), and the cost for this improvement? ~$7500-$8500. How many miles would you have to drive at a 2.5% increase in mileage to make up this difference in initial cost? A lot.

If you're talking about an RV that only gets maybe 6 or 8 MPG to start out with though, getting 1-2 MPG better is a whole different story, as it would represent a much more substantial 12%-33% increase in fuel economy. And for "only" $10k-$20k added to a base price of, what, $75k-$1M? that might be a pretty good deal! (esp. if you were going to do much cross-country driving!)

EPA/MSRP References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_S-Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius#Fuel_consumption_and_CO2_emission
http://www.theautochannel.com/vehicles/new/reviews/2001/russ0118.html
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2001-toyota-prius-2.htm
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2001-honda-civic-2.htm
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2001-saturn-s-series-2.htm

Solar cells less practical than other sources of energy

George — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:01:33 -0800

Consider that the best solar cells only get about 20% or so efficiency. So, you now take that 20% of engery as electricity to heat water, which probably a 10% effient process. So, now you are looking at a 2% efficient process to heat water for a shower? You could get much higher efficiency by putting a passive solar hot water system in your RV (10% vs 2%). Also, you could tap all the wasted heat from your engine's exhuast manifold to both heat your water showering and superheat water for distilling the water and reducing sewage to steril solids -- many times more efficient that using electricity (especially from solar electricity). Passive solar water heating and reclaiming heat from the engine is much "greener" than solar cells.

As for hybrid technology, I drive a Prius. Yes. I like it. But, that does not mean the same kind of technology would work as efficiently in larger vehicles at reasonable cost. For example, the Toyota hybrid SUVs get about 2mpg better than the non-SUV models. The Prius doesn't get better milage just because of the hybrid engine. A lot of the milage improvement comes from better aerodynamics, ligher construction materials, an low friction tires. The SUVs have terrible aerodymics, have very heavy chassis, and big fat tires. You could get a lot more milage in an RV from better aerodynamics, building the chassis with lighter materials (e.g., aluminum), using air matresses instead of spring mattresses, etc. For example an aluminum chassis would cost a lot more money, but probably give better milage than a hybrid engine. Are you really willing to spend $10-20K more for a hybrid engine to get one or two mpg in a big RV?

This sounds like a really

Michael — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:23:12 -0800

This sounds like a really good idea. If the economy weren't so bad, I would say, go write up a business plan. Get some venture capital. People want Eco-Rvs

Hybrid RVs

Anonymous — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:56:12 -0800

Consider a locomotive which pulls hundreds of rail cars thousands of times its own weight. This, as a diesel electric powerplant is really a hybrid. Imagine now, those huge bus-like RVs with a smaller version of what's found inside a locomotive--a efficient durable diesel engine powerplant driving a generator that produces power for an electric motor. Each element optimized for what it does best. Same would apply for over-the-road trucks and 18 wheelers.

I'd jump on that ship!! I

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 06:35:43 -0700

I'd jump on that ship!! I worked in the marketing department of an RV company a few years ago when they all knew the end would be approaching. Why the VP and Pres. didn't require their engineers to come up with a concept hybrid RV I will never know. A lot had to do with greed and the "market." The market being wealthy travelers not concerned with gas prices. Everyone jumped on these VERY UNSAFE toyhaulers - so they were all the rage.

Hybrid RVs, more RV notes

brad — Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:43:06 -0700

Every time I take an RV trip (ie. each Burning Man) I come up with more observations. The biggest one is that it cost $360 in gasoline to go from the bay area to the black rock desert, about 800 miles. And that’s at a price still well below world price. The RV owner said he was planning to get out of the business, people no longer want to pay the gas price.

So why is it taking so long to produce a hybrid RV? Hybrid cars are great of course, but trucks and RVs are what really suck gas and need the improved efficiency. And they have the room for larger and more unusual engine configurations. Most of all, RVs also mostly come with expensive generators and batteries, and a hybrid RV would of course have a super duper power plant and batteries and inverters, presuming the engine was efficient at lower revs. The Hybrid RV’s power plant could also be a backup generator when parked at the non-moving home. Probably make the most sense with diesel fuel, or as I have suggested before, even the highly efficient stirling engine. (Stirlings are big, and take time to warm up, but an RV with batteries is fine with this.)

Every RV’s shower has this hose based showerhead with an on-off dial with a slight leak. Our camp built a much nicer shower using a standard kitchen sprayer. A kitchen sprayer with a lock-on would be much better and would make it easier to conserve water by letting you pulse water where you need it when rinsing.

Cleaning the RV, especially when back from the desert, is hard. RV renters charge fat cleaning deposits and fees. Why doesn’t some company that hires out housekeepers do an RV service. You could come to them. Drive in, and a team of 5 attacks your RV, cleaning it in minutes. Do it at a car wash to also handle the outside if needed. Espcially after Burning Man there’s a business here.

I’ve said these before: Paper towel racks, built-in soap dispensers, inverters, flourescent lights. Why aren’t these everywhere in the RV world, instead of being rare?

Stabilizers jacks are great, but how about something simpler, some way to lock the springs or shocks (of course with an interlock to prevent starting the vehicle!) And while slide-outs are great, why do we never see flip out beds the way pop-top campers have, or a pop-up on the cab-over bed? (Most RVs don’t have any spare wall space except in the master bedroom, which does limit the flip-out bed concept. You also almost never see murphy beds.) Flip-out beds don’t take away your dinette or couch as do the extra beds commonly found. And how about a seat belt design for use on the beds for safe sleeping while driving? You can do this now but it doesn’t seem super safe.