Brad Ideas - Iraq war kills more Americans than 9/11 - Comments

A Few Balancing Numbers and a 'Carrot/Stick' Theory...

wbiro — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:38:24 -0700

Just caught this searching for something else... and I see it was posted a few years ago...

I'm sure you know we can make numbers say whatever we want; but I will give you a few counter numbers anyway, just to give you pause, if you haven't since then...

Counter-Balancing Numbers:

The initial death toll estimate on 9/11 was 50,000 (all who's jobs were not combat-related)... it was a miracle it was only a few thousand...

U.S. demilitarization after WWI and before WWII contributed to the Axis power's aggression. By the time the U.S. rebuilt and won the war, 48,000,000 were dead. (now if you can't see any political implications there, then you're quite obstinate!)

How about Vietnam, and another hush-hush number: After young Western idealists won the war (defeated Capitalism and aided Communism) several million southeast Asians were murdered in Cambodia, S. Vietnam, and Laos... some just for wearing glasses. I'm sure they would all like to thank those who do not take political sides (but who present anti-American numbers)...

The Carrot/Stick Theory:

The problem with a lot of Americans is that they've lived sheltered lives, they just don't know how brutal foreigners think, or how brutal people thought only 50 years ago...

that said, how about this insight that gives 'the sheltered' due credit: right now (July '09) the Iran election is a major issue... so why the Iranian outrage? I have a theory, based on the "Carrot and the Stick"...

Here, Bush was a stick. All Western/Christian hate formulated by the tyrants of the Muslim world over the past several years had been based on that. What happened? America elects Obama, a Carrot. That just shot to hell their mind-control. The peace sign rules again (but not without the partnership of the stick).

So once again a clueless pop culture has done what a might military juggernaut could not- bring down a tyranny... (if the tyrants are toppled)... (and unless the tyrants wise up and use the decadence of a clueless pop culture as their new anti-Western dogma!)...

Well, 'nuff said...

thank you! finally!!!

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:42:58 -0800

thank you! finally!!!

Great Minds...

EvilJesus — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:38:33 -0700

I'm just glad I wasn't the only one that noticed that Bush is now the greater threat to America.

Threats of bringing someone to Justice

EvilJesus — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:36:27 -0700

I recall a lot of threats made toward this one guy... you may remember him...Osama bin Laden, the guy who "actually" attacked us. Last I checked bin Laden is still at large, what does that tell terrorists?

Why?

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:20:42 -0700

Listen, I know we are in a big mess, but if we pulled out now, don't you think the terrorists would be mad enough by now to attack the country, and then try their hardest to get to us after all we've done over there? After all, their whole point in life is to try and kill us, even if they die in the process, so by pulling out, they would have a chance to kill more and more people each and every day, and to plan something maybe similar to 9/11.

America just as bad as the 9/11 terrorists...

Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:59:49 -0700

The US is just as bad (if not worse) than the 9/11 terrorists... The US has directly caused WAY MORE civilians deaths in Iraq (over 70,000) than any terrorists (almost all of whom are NOT EVER FROM IRAQ!!!) have caused US civilian deaths! The US are hypocrites! PLAIN AND SIMPLE! The US have bombed civilians in Iraq left, right and center and somehow that's OK!?

The right thing to do is to

Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:54:08 -0700

The right thing to do is to cause over 70,000 civilian deaths in Iraq? (www.iraqbodycount.org) The majority of Iraqi people are NOT happy that the US is there and were HAPPIER under Saddam Hussein. I can't possibly see how that's the right thing to do.

Mission impossible force

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 02:10:26 -0800

Mr Rumsfeld belittled and harrassed the military general who said it would take at least a half million to 800,000 troops on the ground to provide security in Iraq.Now our brave, noble troops are in the middle of a civil war,with not even enough troops to provide enough security to the road to Bagdad airport.Mr Rumsfeld is gone,if he had a ounce of honor he would have committed suicide,for the thousands of brave troops and innocent Iraqi civilians who have been killed.In a conflict that will end with Iraq still in a civil war.And with the world a much more dangerous place. The first casualty of war is truth.Read about the murder Of British UNSCOM inspector Dr. David Kelly

let's move the war -

Renee — Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:03:55 -0700

I am "pro-iraq war" I suppose - but I am hearing what the other side has to say. I have an idea that I think could work. What say we move the whole war to Louisiana, more precisely - New Orleans!
The advantages:

1. Less expensive to move our troops
2. Our guys could go home on the weekends
3. We would not be responsible for the clean up and rebuilding of the area
4. The Sheehans of the US would get what they want - We war mongers would still have something to do.
5. Innocent Iraqi civilians would be out of harms way
6. The Gulf would limit the amount of border we would have to patrol making it easier to maintain the war arena.
7. Terrorist would be able to sneak out and visit some of their favorite spots like Las Vegas and invest in our economy
8. We would only have to fight those truly committed to coming here to kill us
9. Since we are a country made up of giving and kind people - we would have ample opportunities to work together and really unify on the issue.

What do you think? Can it work? I see this as a win - win idea for everyone. Am I missing something? Why hasn't anyone else thought of this?

A PR Stunt?

GoocherLee — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 13:06:09 -0700

So the entire Iraqi campaign is the result of a badly planned PR stunt?

That's rich.

Oh, by the way, you misspelled Osama, Mr. Grammar.

stupid measures of the Shock and Awe Losers

chad — Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:49:11 -0700

Well as the death tolls in Iraq grow, we can only ask why the hell are we fighting in a country that did not attack us? The death tolls are US soldiers (2,567), coalition fighters (228), Iraqi soldiers (?? 15,000??) and civilians (??40,000; currently 100 per day), as well as misguided individuals like contract killers and Halliburton employees. To say america was behind the Bush agenda is stupid. Before Bush invaded Iraq, record protests were held throughout the country, 200,000 in NY City, 20,000 in Chicago and 60,000 protesters in San Fran.. WWII and Vietnam or Gulf War I never saw such enormous protests. Spineless democrats and idiot republicans in congress and the senate voted for the Iraq invasion. However,the resolve of the government and the country is now clear. We hate to lose, and Iraq is a classic mistake brought on by a deceitful administration and a corrupt CIA.

Now for the idiots that think an eye for an eye is going to achieve something, well today the US and coalition troops total 2795 dead in Iraq, and this exceeds the revised 9-11 death toll of 2752. Since more than just US citizens died on 9-11, the total US and coalition number of deaths is the best comparison. Also, there are 19,000 wounded US soldiers, and over 8,000 did not return to duty 72 hrs after their injuries. on 9-11 there were ~3,000 wounded. By the measure of an eye for an eye, the US is really losing. We all hate losers.

By the way, in Afghanistan we have lost 321 US soldiers and 93 coalition, 412 total. So, we have lost more soldiers than US civilians killed on 911. Afghanistan is getting worse, just like Iraq. Maybe Bush's idiot, fake patriots owe the US, Iraq and the world an apology. It is these idoiots that have been against us/US, not with us.

BRAVO!

Anonymous — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:49:29 -0700

BRAVO!

Responsibility

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:37:08 -0700

It's probably not surprising that a draft dodging President has no clue about military strategy, but as a wily Politician he sure got rid of anyone, including Army Generals, who disagreed with him very early. That's the Hitler strategy isn't it? You know, remove everyone who tells you your strategy won't work and live in denial of the facts.

Whatever happened to "The Buck Stops Here" with this administration? They always seem to want to blame someone else for their own failures. The failure to stop 911. The failure to catch Osamu bin Laden in Afghanistan through lack of resources on the ground. The failure of US morality in Abu Ghraib. The failure of legality at Guantanamo. The failure of humanity at Haditha.

Attacking a country that hated muslim fundamentalists as much as the US now does, no matter how despicable the ruler was, cannot win the War on Terror. All it can do is increase oil prices and show the world how weak the US is if it cannot control a few terrorists in a desert country of only 20 million people. Terrorists using CIA training methods perhaps, but really only a few of them.

Still, one thing Bush and cronies have been successful at is being responsible for the deaths of more Americans than Al Qaeda. If the wrong country hadn't been invaded, over 2,500 US soldiers would now be alive, and 18,000 would not now be injured, maimed or lving for the rest of their lives as amputees. For nothing. It's not the soldiers' fault though: no, it's the administration's (and the Press Corps who never questioned anything.

Invading Iraq was a PR stunt, but it's gone badly wrong. World stability has been upset, America's image in the world has suffered greatly, the rule of law has been undermined, and Osamu bin Laden has still not been caught.

But hey, Runsfeld and Cheney are still pulling George's puppet strings and their rich Texan frineds are raking in the dollars from high oil prices while their arms manufacturing friends are profiteering off the backs of ordinary Americans. So everything's working out great, yeah?

Err, no.

Literacy

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Jun 2006 06:09:43 -0700

OK Mr. Literacy, since you are so smart in these things, tell us how many more attacks like 9/11, the USS Cole, etc., would need to happen before YOU were smart enough to take the fight to them. It isn't just our "security" measures here that have stopped the attacks so far, it has also been that the terrorists are running and hiding for their lives or dying themselves. That has put a real damper on all their leisure time to sit around plotting, planning and scheming ways that they can destroy us on our own soil. If they weren't busy there they would still be busy killing us here. 9/11 wasn't just making a point to the world it was an escelation from the previous attacks against the U.S. on other soils and with a spineless coward at the helm for eight years before Dubya the terrorist knew we didn't have the back bone for a fight so we would continue to suffer our attacks, make threats of bringing someone to justice, then cower back to our lives of ease, stick our heads in the sand, and say "everything will be OK if we don't face our enemies".

hippy terrorist?

Sean — Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:50:41 -0700

Wow. It takes a lot of intelligence to relize a terrorist can be a hippy or that a hippy can be a terrorist. Correct me if I'm wrong, Hippys are pacifist and dont want to hurt anyone, and terrorist do want to hurt everyone. To me it seems like the two are antonyms. I think the point of this blog is to let people know what is going on. Its clear that the blogger wants pacifism to succeed and to stop the bloodshed. Just my $.02

Iraq war kills more Americans than 9/11

brad — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:42:07 -0800

Last night I was thinking to myself that we would probably see a big political todo when the war military death toll reaches 2749 — the number of people killed (not including the 10 suicide attackers) in the WTC on 9/11.

To my surprise, a little research showed we are well past the threshold. There have been 2221 U.S. soldiers killed in the Iraq conflict. In addition as of November 1, there had been 428 U.S. civilian contractors killed according to labour dept. statistics. I don’t have figures for civilian deaths of the last 3 months or for non-contractor civilian war-related deaths. (On an additional note, 191 U.S. military have died in the Afghan war. I don’t have U.S. civilian figures.) Also note 189 died at the Pentagon, and 40 on UA Flight 93.

That puts U.S. dead at around 2840, well over the WTC number and probably over the 2980 9/11 total when other civilians are added.

However, the hidden reality is that number was passed quite some time ago. That’s because fewer than 2100 Americans were killed in the WTC disaster. A quick search showed stats putting the number of U.S. dead in the WTC at 2106(back when they thought the total death toll was 2800 so it’s a little high.) And that’s the right number because all this counting of American dead in the Iraq war is disingenuous to the vastly greater numbers of Iraqi civilians and other nationals killed in the war and war-related violence. So if the focus is on U.S. citizen deaths, the war-on-terror deaths now far exceed the 9/11 deaths.

Now, I haven’t made any political comment on what this means, though I am sure others will. I just found it interesting the way the real numbers pan out, in contrary to what we see commonly reported.