Brad Ideas - eBay shipping scam and more eBay dynamics - Comments

Ebay Shipping Scam!!!!

Pondfrog — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:56:37 -0800

I think tonight was the worst shipping scam I have ever come across. My daughter was looking for a dress and found one that had 5 minutes left to bid on. She bought it for 20 usd. (while we discussed the china shipping fees and what they could be) The seller didn't have the shipping fee posted. The seller being LOUIEDOG83. Anyway, I was frantically looking for possible worst case scenario of shipping a 5 pound dress to US from China. USPS 1-3 day shipping was 80 dollars. Standard shipping was 37. Well she got the dress cheap enough so 80 (worst case scenerio) is reasonable.

She emailed him for the cost of shipping. He must have been sitting at his computer because she recieved a prompt response. Are you sitting down?? Shipping cost of the 5 pound dress (at the most) from china is 140 usd. The best part is she emailed him back and asked 'why so much' when 80 would be the expensive. His response was "I had to make up some for the dress being so cheap" he openly addmitted he was making up for his loss of money. 60 dollars if not more (shipping gouging)

The rest of the story! She refused to pay and he responded with "mutual agreement, no pay"

This guy >> www.mwgraves.com << has the right idea. Making a list of ebay shipping gougers.

When I sell on ebay I use actual shipping cost with the calculator. I think that should be the standard for all sellers. Global shipping calculators integrated into EBay like all their other little annoying features. What's one more anyway?

I think Ebay was orginally set up to sell the crap in your house you don't want. It has become a retailers paradise. It's out of control!!

Thank for the rant! :-)

Buyer & Seller.

Steve — Sat, 24 Nov 2007 03:41:58 -0800

Hello,
I am a buyer and a seller on eBay. I agree with comments from both sides. Heres my view, first as a buyer, then as a seller.
As a buyer - I look at the total listing, before bidding or not bidding. Feedback rating, starting bid, reserve price, shipping charges, combined shipping charges, payment options, insurance & photo included. If any of these are not acceptable to me as buyer, such as- (poor feedback rating), ("reserve"-I bid only once, my max, and if the reserve is not met, Im done), (excessive shipping), (no PayPal), (insurance not offered), (poor photo) then I move on. Simple as that. If everything looks good, and I have a bad experience with a seller, I dont buy from them again.
As a seller - Lets look at this example. When posting a large number of listings with low cost items,(sellers actual cost of item $2.00), starting bid at .99cents, no reserve & $3.00 shipping. If the item sells for .99cents + $3.00 shipping. Thats $3.99 for the seller. Now lets subtract the fees. LISTING FEE=.20cents, FVF-5.25%=.07cents, GALLERY=.35cents, PAYPAL-"2.9%+.30cents"=.42cents, shipping=$2.00. That leaves .95cents, then minus the actual cost of the item of $2.00, that leaves the seller $1.04 in the hole. Just a FYI. Basically the only way for this example to be profitable for the seller, is the hope of bidders buying multiple items & then shipping the items, combined shipping. Of course then you will have the people who will argue that combined shipping charges are too high. Face the facts. On items listed below or at actual cost, the seller is going to lose money, if the item sells at minimum bid, as in this example.
EBAY & PAYPAL are not perfect, and yes the fees are high, for this type of seller. Its the gamble that the seller takes when listings are posted.
Buyers need to understand that there are cost and fees involved in posting a listing and that shipping charges involve more than a postage stamp.
Yes the seller wants the most profit he can get, and yes the buyer wants the best deal he can get. Its impossible to make everyone happy in every situation.
Yes there are sellers that abuse the system and yes there are buyers who want something for nothing. Youre always going to have someone that is going to find fault with the other party.
SIMPLE ADVISE FOR BUYERS - dont bid if you dont agree with the listing terms.
SIMPLE ADVISE FOR SELLERS - we arent going to bid if your terms are ridiculous.
Lastly - FEEDBACK - I agree that this feature needs work. I dont have the solution, but as both a seller & a buyer, heres my view.
As a buyer I always post feedback when I receive the item, that I purchased. ALWAYS.
As a seller, I post feedback, after the buyer has posted feedback. Why? 1. I used to post as soon as payment was received. Only 1/3 of the buyers posted in return. 2. If I post when payment is received, then the buyer can post negative(because of any number of things that can happen during shipment or a deceitful buyer). Then I have negative on my rating, from a buyer that I posted positive. Fair ??? Just as an experiment. I, as the seller, recently left feedback for everyone,(78 feedbacks), as soon as payment was received. The feedback response was... 6, yes, six (6), very sad. This is why I have the policy of posting, once feedback is received.
Lets face it. Its never going to be perfect, and at the same time, there are going to be those on both extremes, sellers with ridiculous terms & buyers expecting something for nothing.

Thank for listening.

Paypal fees are like COD fees

mendel — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 03:38:37 -0800

When I buy from a catalogue or online store, the added cost of sending the merchandise COD instead of pre-paying or using direct debit is added to S&H as a matter of course, so why shouldn't paypal fees be? Of course it'd be a plus if teh seller offered other payment options, e.g.bank transfer.

Couldn't agree more. As a

Ron — Thu, 22 Nov 2007 18:08:16 -0800

Couldn't agree more. As a buyer I used to have some disdain for this seeming reversal of selling prices where shipping costs can be as much as 10-30 times higher than the selling price of the item. HOWEVER, after selling and seeing the extent to which I was being fee'd to death by paypal, ebay, etc I realize the reason. Also, the bottom line for me is that my total selling price is designed to be competitive with others in the market (and designed to account for the hammering in fees that I get). So if I lowered my shipping prices, and increased my sales prices I'd have to build ebay's extraordinary fees into my selling price and pass this cost on to the buyer. SO, the reality in my case at least is that structuring my item costs this way keeps me competitive AND keeps me from passing additional costs on to my buyers. BTW, yes I have started an ecommerce storefront and in the second month, my off-ebay sales are surpassing my on e-bay sales by far because I can charge lower prices off of ebay, and pass those savings on to my buyers. Thank you for bringing this issue to the forefront though, as it also helps us uncover the hidden issue of fairly exorbatent fees being charged to sellers (and I might add, passed on to you buyers. If a buyer buys a $15 item from me on ebay, unbeknownst to them they are actually paying $2 to ebay, but on my person e-commerce storefront I can charge $13 for the same item and save them those two dollars)

Shipping fees...

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:58:08 -0800

I just wish that there was some way to COD packages to yourself. As in a buyer being responsible for shipping the item... Shame that it would get complicated depending on the location of the seller and the services available to them.

Many times I avoided a bid

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 03:11:28 -0800

Many times I avoided a bid on eBay, or cancelled order on eShop, due to too expensive shipping rates. Worst, my country (France) was not always availlable within rates...
When I sell, I use Compare Shipping Rates website. And i can provide all my shipping rates prices easily and quickly.
And I belive I can sell more with lower shipping costs.
khrap

Sellers don't pay fees

brad — Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:00:09 -0800

While it is the seller who remits the fee, the reality is the money comes from the buyer. Changing who sees the fee might help things but in the end it is buyers who pay for everything in just about all markets. Brokers love it when they can get one party to be the actual payer, and another party to be the negotiator of the fee, because that usually is a win for the broker.

Plain and simple,

Anonymous — Mon, 08 Jan 2007 16:15:33 -0800

Plain and simple, ebay+paypal charge to much, they over charge and offer no support to sellers and at the first chance snatch money from your account... Buyers are crying because they want things cheaper and faster.. tuff tits.. Buyers should ask ebay to lower fees, or pay a buying fee if they think ebay is so great.... I dont see anyone rushing for that....basicly buyers are big babies and cheapskates who want things cheaper, eat shit and go to thrift stores and flea markets like most sellers do if you want things cheap. plus fuck off pussys

Shipping Scam

Anonymous — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 14:14:34 -0800

FYI.

I purchased a product on Ebay that I know weighs about 1.5 lbs. The shipping cost was $14.94 for UPS ground. I went to the UPS site and determined that I could ship 2 lbs from Hawaii to Maine for about $8.

Nice padding in the shipping costs!

Why complain on padded shipping

brad — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:22:08 -0800

On an as-is item you might not complain, but otherwise you could get caught in a trap, on returning an item, of getting the “price” refunded but not the shipping. Nobody, it seems, refunds shipping. But if the item was $1 and shipping $30 you are out of luck, probably even through your credit card company since you agreed to it.

I was amused to see one valid example of padded shipping the other day. During the Playstation 3 craze, I saw one listed for $600 (the list price) with $1000 shipping. In this case, it’s correct — what you’re paying for is the 3 days the guy spent in line to pick up the item for you.

Who's Paying and Feedback

Anonymous — Sun, 26 Nov 2006 22:45:04 -0800

I've both bought and sold items on eBay. It never ceases to amaze me when sellers complain about the fees they pay. They aren't paying any fees. THE BUYER IS! Sellers sell used items they've had and no longer want, sell things given to them by other people who no longer want them, or purchase items far below their costs to sell for a few dollars less than retail. SellerS charge handling fees to cover the cost of packing material (often an old used box with newpaper as padding), gas, internet service, time spent listing the item, and wear and tear to their vehicles for transport to shipping facilities. Often there's a dollar or two added to these costs (for nothing) that eBay doesn't charge for. Bottom dollar... THE BUYER PAYS ALL THESE FEES FOR THE SELLER WHEN THEY PAY FOR THE ITEM!!! If sellers lost money selling on eBay, it wouldn't exist! Just as sellers say, "Buyers shouldn't buy if they don't like the shipping costs." Sellers shouldn't sell if they don't want to give up a portion of their sale price as fees. I've sold both expensive and inexpensive items. In the end, I always ended up making a profit.

As far as the sellers who over charge for shipping... buyers should consider the total cost of the item (price + shipping). If the shipping costs are clearly stated, the item is worth the total cost, and they want it, don't complain. Otherwise, keep shopping. Personally, I avoid sellers who use that tactic.

As for feedback... When I sell an item, I leave feedback as soon as payment is made. The feedback I leave is based on how quickly the buyer pays and, if applicable, on their communications with me. Sure, I can hold off on leaving FB until I receive it, but why? I give honest and detailed descriptions of the items I sell, INCLUDING ALL DAMAGE. I also take additional pictures that I keep until the sale is completed (in case someone asks), and pack all my items about a day before the auction ends, so I can get them in the mail ASAP. I also state in all my auctions, and on the packing slip enclosed with the item, that I will try to work with any buyer to resolve any issues if they'll contact me BEFORE leaving negative FB. If they decide to leave me a negative, I still can't go back and leave them negative FB, because I've already said they paid. Sure, I can leave a follow-up footnote, but most people who review FB are looking for negatives. They may not ever notice a negative footnote on a postive FB. Using this method of honest description and willingness to resolve issues has never failed me in getting positive FB in return. My only negative came in retaliation from a non-paying bidder (something eBay no longer allows).

I am ALWAYS suspicious of sellers who insist on getting FB first. I try to only do business with sellers who leave FB first. This is easy to do by going to the sellers FB and looking under "Left for Others". If I find an item that I can only purchase from a non-FB first seller (NFBFS), I neither leave nor expect FB. I believe that's what all buyers should do. It would quickly put an end to what you refer to as FB blackmail, and I call Feedback Hostagery. Yes, it does keep my FB score low and excellent, but I'm shopping, not trying to win a popularity contest. Despite any excuses made by NFBFS, there is only one reason for waiting to leave a buyer FB. The reason is, they want to punish buyers who complain, and they know many will suck it up to keep their FB scores up. Anyone who says this isn't true needs to follow a few FB trails. See if you can find a buyer who's left negative FB for a NFBFS about a deceptive/omissive description or slow ship time and got a positive returned stating, "Sorry you were unhappy. It was my fault." Not gonna happen! And you can bet there were plenty of times, for whatever reason, the seller was in the wrong. Any complaint gets a negative. In some cases, I've seen buyers leave postive that included a complaint and got negative in return.

Since eBay is unwilling to address these issues, there is only one way to change it. That is, for BUYERS NOT TO LEAVE FB FOR SELLERS WHO HAVEN'T LEFT IT FIRST and REFUSE TO BUY FROM SELLERS WHO PAD SHIPPING!

Overcharging shipping is

Anonymous — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:56:22 -0800

Overcharging shipping is definitely a problem that should be addressed. Just now I've seen an item that sells for 1c and charges $600 shipping. It's unfortunate that unscrupulous ebayers still plague the scene. I've reported the item to ebay, and hopefully they'll pull it without incident.

Cry me a river

Alex — Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:49:19 -0700

I've got the world's smallest violin playing right here for the sellers justifying inflated shipping charges based on the fees eBay charges. First, eBay provides sellers with a valuable service, including Web hosting, transaction assistance, and attracting millions of potential customers to look at their listings. If the fees are too high for that service, then they ought to have no problem setting up their own e-commerce stores, if they think they can do so more cheaply and with the same effectiveness in attracting customers. But if they've decided that eBay is an acceptable service to use in facilitating their businesses, then they need to follow the rules that they agreed to as a condition of taking advantage of the benefits of that service. And second, if the practice of fee avoidance by hiding the true costs of items in bogus shipping and handling charges were not so widespread and more sellers played by the rules, then eBay would be able to charge lower seller fees all around. Keep in mind that eBay has an incentive not to charge excessive fees to sellers, because if fees get too high, more sellers are going to decide that setting up their own e-commerce site is a more efficient way to do business.

Ebay feedback

another person — Fri, 11 Aug 2006 20:00:34 -0700

Yeah, Ebay needs some serious overhauls - but instead they seem to just be focused on periodic increases in listing costs and the addition of annoying trivial "features"
Feedback blackmail is rampant and Ebay loves it - they have a deal with SquareTrade, a feedback moderation service that charges to help you get rid of bad feedback. If Ebay wasn't so obsessed with being evil, they would institute a time window for sellers to leave feedback - the buyer should be required to indicate payment sent date and depending on how it was sent the clock would start ticking. Seller's motivation would be to receive reciprocal feedback, but buyer would not have to fear being honest. Usually the buyers end of the relationship is all settled after having made payment- in the rare instance that the buyer manages to piss the seller off enough, the seller could append comments to his original feedback "ewwhh, I didn't mean A++++ at all, more like F--, I'm really angry! grr." but this would not affect the buyer's rating. I personally don't hesitate to give negative feedback to anyone whether I have received feedback from them or not - but I consider this nothing more than an act of goodwill to alert future buyers - it certainly does me no good to be honest - I just get revenge feedback - usually followed by an offer to mutually withdrawal - I then feel obliged to waste a half hour explicitly explaining to these folks what spineless scumbags they are.

"CLEARLY LISTED MODE-GLOBAL PRIORTY MAIL-4-6 BUSINESS DAYS!!!!

Mr. Templeton — Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:25:10 -0700

S/H charges. The classics of Ebay and Paypal: + seller + buyer. If it is all clear... No dispute. Willing parties involved. My experience is I paid top dollars for "CLEARLY LISTED MODE-GLOBAL PRIORTY MAIL-4-6 BUSINESS DAYS!!!!) I have waited more than about 4weeks now??? The seller insisted that the shipping company is at fault. Inserted a UPS tracking number which does not work on Paypal account details. When I wrote to him about it.. He said that USPS is actually the company which ship my goods. #^%#@^ So sad and moody. It is a basic trust that Ebay is built upon. I will not buy from this seller again! Again there is this Feedback blackmail thingy.... If I leave a negative for the seller... He will do the same for me. In the course of these 4 weeks, I wrote to him max twice a week. He may give me a negative for bugging him? SAD :) . Best forgotten experience. I do suspect that th parcel is sent out but using the 'CHEAPEST' mode available to maximise profit. I paid top dollar for shipping I expect top service!!! Fair trade.

eBay shipping scam and more eBay dynamics

brad — Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:02:39 -0800

I’ve done a few threads on eBay feedback, today I want to discuss ways to fix the eBay shipping scam. In this scam, a significant proporation of eBay sellers are listing items low, sometimes below cost, and charging shipping fees far above cost. It’s not uncommon to see an item with a $1 cost and $30 in shipping rather than fairer numbers. The most eBay has done about it is allow the display of the shipping fees when you do a search, so you can spot these listings.

I am amazed eBay doesn’t do more, as one of the main reasons for sellers to do this is to save on eBay fees. However, it has negative consequences for the buyer, aside from making it harder to compare auctions. First of all, if you have a problem, the seller can refund your “price” (the $1) but not the shipping, which is no refund at all. Presumably ditto with paypal refunds. Secondly, the law requires that if you are charged more than actual shipping (ie. handling) there is tax on the total S&H. That means buyers pay pointles taxes on shipping.

Again, since eBay would make more fees if they fixed this I don’t know why they have taken so long. I suggest:

Let buyers sort by shipping fees. Pretty soon you get a sense of what real shipping on your item should be. A sort will reveal who is charging the real amount and who isn’t. Those who don’t provide fees get listed last — which is good as far as I am concerned.
Let buyers see a total price, especially on Buy-it-now, shipping + cost, and sort on that or search on that. Again, those who don’t provide a sipping price come last.
Highlight auctions wthat use actual shipping price, or have a handling fee below a reasonable threshold. This will be unfair on certain high-handling items.
Of course, charge eBay fees on the total, including handling and shipping. Doesn’t help the buyer any but at least removes the incentive.

Now let’s talk about the reputation dynamics of the transaction. The norm is buyer sends liquid money sight unseen to the seller, and the seller sends merchandise. Why should it necessarily be one way or the other? In business, high reputation buyers just send a purchase order, get the item and an invoice, and pay later.

I think it would be good on eBay to develop a norm that if the buyer has a better reputation thant he seller, the seller ships first, the buyer pays last. If the seller’s rep is better, or it’s even, stick with the current system.

Sellers could always offer this sort of payment, even when the seller is high-rep, to high-rep buyers as an incentive.

There should also be special rules for zero-rep or low-rep sellers. By this I don’t mean negative reputation, just having few transactions. Who is going to buy from a zero-rep seller? The tradition has been to build up a buyer rep, and then you can sell, which is better than nothing but not perfect.

When the seller has a very low rep, the seller should just automatically assume it’s going to be send-merchandise-first, get money later except with very low rep buyers. Low rep sellers should be strongly encouraged to offer escrow, at their expense. It would be worth it. Often I’ve seen auctions where the difference in price is quite large, 20% or more, for sellers of reputations under 5. eBay should just make a strong warning to the low-rep sellers that they should consider this, and even offer it as a service.

Update: I’ve run into a highly useful Firefox extension called ShortShip. This modifies eBay search pages to include columns with total price. Their “pro” version has other useful features. You can sort by it, but it only is able to sort what was on that particular page (ie. the auctions close to ending, typically) so the price sort can be mistaken, with a cheaper buy-it-now not shown. eBay is so slow in adding software features that extensions like this are the way to go.