Brad Ideas - The Ellen Tigh Plot - Comments

Why the Ellen Tigh plot doesn't work

The Duke — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 06:05:21 -0700

The most annoying of all the plotlines, abandoned, 'left open' (read: not worked out properly by the writers) and apparently resolved is Ellen Tigh being the final cylon.

Adama quite specifically says that Tigh has aged. His wife must also have aged to not appear to be a cylon.

That means the bodies they regenerate into would have to be of the age at which they were 'released' into the human population. They would have been younger bodies.

The bodies in stasis couldn't age or they wouldn't survive the 2000 year journey.

Ellen's new body should have been younger when she regenerated - by about 20 years. It appears to be a terminal flaw in the plot, which is riddled with so many that it fails to tell a consistent story.

Starbuck's Nature

Alvin — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:37:55 -0800

I don't think RDM was being sneaky when he said that Starbuck is something else entirely. I have this feeling that she's the 13th Cylon. "13th, you're crazy, there's only ever stated to be 12!" But it makes sense that there would be, as there was a long lost 13th colony, and this would make everything symmetrical (BSG seems to love their symmetry). Perhaps Starbuck was the Final Five's first attempt at procreation, or maybe their latest, with her father being one of the 5 (they never did show him)-- this would explain her mother's resentment towards her, if she were part cylon. She could very well be the first hybrid, and therefore downloadable. She could be the counterpart to Count Iblis, or the very first Cylon. Many, many options.

She is the fifth

brad — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:51:42 -0800

Vernon and others have been unequivocal about it. This is not some sneaky mystery. Starbuck is a sneaky mystery.

With Starbuck, we have a few options. She could have been downloaded and duplicated, or she could have been collected and her dog tags put on a burned body. After all, the tech to transport her burned body and exploded viper out of the maelstrom is no fancier than the tech to collect her intact body, perhaps less fancy. I mean they have teleporters (FTL drive) in this show, and they also have mind downloading (for Cylons) so it’s a toss up.

Convoluted Fakeouts

Lisa — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:24:27 -0800

Moore has said that Starbuck is "something else entirely." I think it was Olmos who said her story is dark and sickening. I'm going with the obvious right now and believing it when Tight said "You're the Fifth." In the previews we see Ellen in a resurrection tub. Sure, it could all be twisted around my the creative editing, but I'm going with the simplest answer right now.

Can someone please explain

Anonymous — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:27:40 -0800

Can someone please explain why everyone is so sure the final cylon is Ellen Tigh!

Earlier in the episode, starbuck finds a charred corpse with her dogtags attached. That there is some real physical evidence that she is a cylon. Saul simply had a memory of ellen living on earth, which could just plain be wrong and intended to mislead.

Because the 13th tribe was a

MrD — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:41:08 -0800

Because the 13th tribe was a tribe of Cylons.

Why were the only bones that

gpatricia — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:06:26 -0800

Why were the only bones that were found on Earth belonging to Cylons?

Glad you like my Photobucket

Anonymous — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:17:05 -0800

Glad you like my Photobucket :)

For those who know the TV business

brad — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:28:17 -0800

Her removal from the credits was proof that she was coming back. You see, for a contracted regular, their contract requires they be in the credits whether they are used or not in a given episode. They get paid whether or not they are used, unlike the guest stars. You can’t remove a regular from the credits without their permission. The fact that Sackhoff gave her permission indicated that she was game, and thus coming back.

It would take me a while to

Lisa — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:32:03 -0800

It would take me a while to track down a quote, but I do remember Moore saying that she's dead. On top of that, a big deal was made of Sackhoff signing on for other shows and her name being removed from the credits. It was a huge fakeout. I'm not saying that he's definitely doing that with Dualla, but there's a precedent that Moore has brought back two female characters from the "dead." I'm not counting any of the "deaths" of the S7 because we know they can resurrect, I'm only counting on two character we thought were human.

I need to have the comment form say "don't say it's in the past"

brad — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:36:19 -0800

I swear I am going to have to have the comment form tell people not to post yet another suggestion it’s all in the past.

It isn’t. That’s scientific nonsense, and plot nonsense. There are several articles here on the blog that explain why in great detail.

Yes

brad — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:34:15 -0800

Starbuck did die, and was duplicated/downloaded. The Cylons refer to their temporary deaths and death sometimes (other times they say they can’t die.) They talk about the space between life and death, too. As did not-Leoben to Starbuck. He told her she was about to enter it. And I don’t think he ever said she was dead, did he? Haffner said “Starbuck as we know it is dead” which was true.

Confirmation

Lisa — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:27:08 -0800

You mean like when he said Starbuck was dead?

IMDB

Lisa — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:24:48 -0800

I don't think IMDB is up to date. Kandyse McClure is listed in quite a few of the remaining episodes as well.

No,

Anonymous — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:47:49 -0800

Zak was Kara's fiancee, not her husband

The Ellen Tigh Plot

brad — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:05:23 -0700

With so many candidates eliminated by various clues and pronouncements, one that has percolated to the top (not counting the Virtual Being who is my current leader) is the dead Ellen Tigh. She’s not a very popular choice, since she was not a likable character, and not that major of one either.

Ellen appeared, though many won’t remember it, in the pilot miniseries. Just before the attack, Colonel Tigh pulls out a photo of Ellen (played by a different actress) and uses his cigar to burn a hole in it. In this photograph, you see he burns her a bright red, glowing eye. Well, especially to miniseries viewers, a red glowing eye has a special meaning.

When she does arrive, everybody wonders if she’s a Cylon. She says she was unconscious on a fleet ship for 3 weeks, having escaped from Picon. She’s immediately all over everybody, wants to get back with Tigh, is flirting with Apollo and very, very curious about the hunt for Earth. She is the first to be tested in the Cylon tester.

So let’s consider an interesting possible plot for Ellen as the final Cylon.

The Final Five, as I view it, are not strictly Cylons. They are former human beings who transferred their minds into AI form. They were, I think, the people who programmed and created the Cylon AIs and the first Cylons themselves, back on Earth.

As I also surmise, in order to maintain their humanity, they regularly incarnate themselves in human form, unaware of who they are. They are born, grow up and then later die or become aware, and merge themselves with the more advanced AI mind, keeping that mind more human.

So let’s imagine that two of the five are lovers. They were lovers as humans, and have had a tumultuous, 4,000 year long on-again off-again love affair. Sometimes, as is the case this time, they find each other in human form, and marry. But it’s not a fully stable relationship, in spite of, or perhaps because of its longevity.

This time, Ellen goes particularly far, and starts screwing Cavil and eventually betrays the resistance while trying to help Saul. And he has to execute her for doing this.

After he does, Ellen wakes up in a tank. Now her mind is merged with her old self, and she remembers the 4,000 year history. And sees the horrible thing done to Saul, and that he did to her. She is hungry for redemption, but it will only come with suffering.

Boy, talk about a marital spat coming up. I only suggest details here. It’s possible that if this is the real plot, Moore could develop it more. Even show flashbacks, once things are revealed, of their beginnings on Earth, and their 4,000 year long love affair and battle. Give it some real meat. Strengthen the love and betrayals. And then show how it all comes together.

To sum up, Ellen:

Has many dramatic clues pointing her out as a Cylon.
Has been around since the miniseries and season one.
Is a guest star, but not a brand new one. She’s well known to audiences, unless they just joined.
Is not in the fleet, and D’Anna may well know she’s dead.
Is not in the Last Supper photo
Is not likely to be the one D’Anna apologized to (I guess that would be Anders.)
Would be hungering for redemption, and gain it only in suffering.
At the time of Razor, she was still alive and in shadow.
Has been back in the show, in Tigh’s mind.

My main issue with her, aside from her non-likability, is I don’t think she’s developed enough, and she’s been out of the show since early in Season 3, except for her hallucination appearances. They would need to develop this story more to make it satisfying, but I think they could do that.

It can of course be very deep. Perhaps this isn’t the first time they have betrayed one another, or even the first time one of them has killed the other. Could the war on Kobol have been a result of their marital spat?