Brad Ideas - Someone to walk all over me - Comments

I don't believe starbuck is

Johnny — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:51:20 -0700

I don't believe starbuck is a cylon/human hybrid, but full blooded cylon. I believe she is in fact zoe, the very first caprican made sentient cylon, and also daniel graystone's daughter. I also believe daniel greystone is the daniel they mention as being the cylon that cavil killed.

A new posting is opened

brad — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:44:43 -0800

For discussion of Islanded in a sea of stars.

Filler Fatique? Maybe.

Alvin — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:39:25 -0800

I'll admit to feeling like it's filler, but in reality, it's in our heads. Had there been a season 5, we'd be enjoying it more, but the fact is, we're all so eager to get answers that we're looking past what's going on, not seeing the forest for the tress as it were. It's not your fault, of course, as i'm doing the same thing-- it's a natural impulse in this situation. It's like getting to the last chapter of a long murder mystery where the murderer isn't revealed until the very last sentence: the last chapter is filled with lots of good character moments, nice drama, but you so badly just want to skip ahead to the last page and see who did it.

The show has always been more about the human drama than the mysteries and plot twists, but the fact is, they billed this season with the tagline 'You Will Know The Truth'.

So on the one hand I don't blame them, they're writing the show they want to write, but on the other hand, they should have anticipated us feeling this way (and with that tagline, they clearly did) and gone to greater lengths to pace out the revelations a little better.

Don't lend things to your brother

Alvin — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:30:56 -0800

Again, it's been years, I don't recall the film as well as i wish I did. I lost my dvd copy years ago sadly. As best I can recall, though, didn't it just turn out that she left him because she couldn't deal with his insanity, and he invented the whole murder mystery himself to give his life meaning? How is this a paradox? I'm confused. I need to find that DVD... I think I lent it to my brother. Grr.

Another Episode of Filler!

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 20:56:17 -0800

Just finished watching today's BSG, I am sorry to say this whole season could have been done in 4 hours. I struggled to stay awake at times. Even the most ardent fan of this show has to admit that this is being teased out with 10 min. of worthwhile material and 30 minutes of material that should have ended up on the editing room floor.

I wished the hype even came close to the reality. I am missing Gaeta and Zarek right now.

Memento is a paradox because

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 20:20:59 -0800

Memento is a paradox because at the end of the film, specifically when Leonard asks if anything is real, there is a shot of Leonard and his wife in bed only he has all the tattoos including a new one over his heart that says "I did it". When asked about it Christopher Nolan called it, "The wonderful paradox of the film." He has never said anything else about it, which, as was insinuated, makes the story itself flawed because it is in actuality completely impossible. I actually really like the Esher description.

Oh no, sidetracked

Alvin — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:24:39 -0800

You've sidetracked me, now. It's been years since i've seen Memento. I do not recall that ending, nor the paradox it created. Can you refresh my memory (no pun intended, though giddily accepted)?

Influence/Misconception

Alvin — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 16:48:28 -0800

It's a common misconception that Star Wars has more cultural relevance than Star Trek simply due to mass popularity. But that's a mistake because popularity and cultural relevance are not the same. While Trek may not be as popular, EVERYONE worldwide living in a civilized country knows what Star Trek is, knows the vulcan neck pinch, live long and prosper, captain kirk, spock and even khan. So when it comes to knowledge of the franchise, I would say it's at least equal.

But let us not forget how it inspired culture and technology. How many scientists, engineers, inventors and even politician claim they are devoted to their profession due to Trek (answer: a LOT). How many black professionals were inspired by Uhura (ditto)? Professionals who drew inspiration from Star Wars tend to be digital artists, designers and special effects wizards-- people in film as you say. All respectable professions, but they do not influence our society to the degree that engineers, inventors and politicians do (Obama is an admitted Trekkie, you know).

Star Trek continues to influence television and movies to AT LEAST the same degree as Star Wars (parodies of trek are even more common that Star Wars parodies) but usually in more subtle ways.

But more importantly is the Enterprise itself. They named an aircraft carrier after it. And a space shuttle.

Not Chariots

brad — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:33:12 -0800

That’s not the Chariots of the Gods plot, that’s the Ancient Atlantis plot. I outlined all these plots in the original essay. Unlike the “Kobolians are our ancestors” plot which is nonsense, those plots are possible. Though they are not particularly likely, as you would have to explain the complete disappearance of the advanced society not just from Earth, but from the moon and other places where things don’t degrade. Not that you could not explain that, but I don’t see the point.

One reader has suggested a point — to make it so that we are the next ones who must break the cycle. That would suggest our heroes don’t break it this time, of course, which is what I was expecting with Hera, etc.

Read all your comments and don't agree

Coolmoose — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 10:34:16 -0800

I think it is possible that they can write it that they are landing here in our Earth's past, and still not violate the tenets of evolution. Let me say that I don't want them to land in the past. However, what it requires is this progression:

- Tribe of humans (10,000BP or farther back in time) with advanced technology.
- Tribe leaves our Earth and heads for Kobol.
- Tribe settles Kobol.
- Kobol falls - 12 tribes found colonies, 13th tribe founds BSG "Earth"
...
- The fleet arrives at our Earth in our past.

Pros of this is it preserves the "human" aspect of the storyline, allows interbreeding, preserves DNA history, etc.
Cons - there are many. You have to assume that some group of humans develops advanced technology at a much earlier time than we know of here on Earth. It requires that we have no evidence or recollection of such a society. But there are ways to explain that (Shangri-la in Lost Horizons). If you think about human technology development, it was both slow and rapid at different times. Leaving aside FTL, the colonies still have essentially the same technology we have today. They still shoot guns instead of DEWs - in that regard, WE are more advanced than they are. Overall, we are about where they are, especially if you assume that AI is about to take a leap forward here today.

So is it such a stretch to assume that some humans couldn't have developed technology much faster in ancient times... I would say no - you can make a case for it. Our technological progress has been a mix of little to no advancement punctuated by huge leaps in advancement. If you removed the stagnant times in our history, you could compress our technological development into a thousand years easily, perhaps even a few generations making it as little as 200 years. What could make that happen? Well, if you had a cloistered society that eschewed war and idolized scientific discovery, yeah, that society would advance rapidly.

Now could they have existed in our past, and still left without leaving any traces? Maybe, maybe not. But you could write it and make it plausible. Maybe they are such advanced recyclers that essentially they take everything with them when they go. Maybe what they leave behind is hidden from us (Atlantis sinks, right?). Maybe they blow it up. Maybe it is buried under sheets of ice in Antarctica and we haven't found it yet. Regardless, you can have them develop and leave. No settlements on the Moon? Who says they stopped on the moon - but maybe they did. Maybe their landing site got hit with a asteroid, so it's gone from our POV. Their satellites? Low earth satellites would likely have crashed by now. Or maybe the recyclers picked them up and took them with them. Likely? No. Plausible... I'd say okay to it.

Now, fast forward to the BSG events and they are about to land... when do they land? Maybe it's around the time of the ancient Greeks and thus our history is infused by the gods landing on Olympus and subverting Greek culture with BSG culture. Maybe it's before that and they develop Greek culture from scratch. Maybe they land and create the mythos of Atlantis we know today.

In this way, you can sort of have your cake and eat it too. You can have the Chariots of the Gods answer, but it still makes sense from an evolution POV.

It also jibes with a few other things... "Life here, began out there" True enough if you wrote it on Kobol. And the Kobolians would have handed that down to the colonies.

At the end of the day, you can go back to a point before recorded history and as long as you include our Earth as the cradle of humanity, and have them leave, and come back in the past. You don't need to retcon evolution or our understand of Earth history to do it.

Irony: Part Deus Ex Machina

Anonymous — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:42:51 -0800

When people talk about influence is that Star Wars influencing them or are they painting things on that aren't there? I suggest that but what might have triggered an interest is one thing and the level of content is another. I've watched the movies, played some of the games, and read some of the books. There's some good stuff in there but beyond a certain point it's content free or nothing that couldn't have flown under a different flag.

It's like this Obama thing American's have going. I've read the same books he has and apart from some polish and apart from the size of the audience pretty much said the same things. He's got the philosophical bling and the chummy handshake like Star Wars but like Star Wars once you get beyond a certain point he's a fat free diet. He's a focus that other people bring their hopes and dreams, their narratives, and a lot of consumer dollars to.

Electronic Arts has a similar deal going. Like the music industry people like to be the big hitters, the household name, the Don whose ring you kiss to get approval to open the shop you've always dreamed of running. This is great because it brings focus, energy, order, and cooperative ecosystem but there's always an element of monopoly, crushing alternatives, and draining the collective capital. How many people has Star Wars snuffed out?

Star Trek vs. Star Wars

brad — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:34:41 -0800

Since ST vs SW is the classic rathole topic of SF, I am not going to encourage a big thread about this. But I have my Star Wars chops. I saw Star Wars 15 times in the cinemas in 1977-78 (it played for a year, and my dad had a free pass, and I was 17.) Star Wars is a huge entertainment phenomenon, perhaps the biggest of all time. It changed movies forever, and invented merchandising and was mythic. But it is a pale shadow of Star Trek when you look outside entertainment. Star Wars changed moviemaking, and yes, space opera moviemaking, hugely. Star Trek, on the other hand, changed the world, as it raised and inspired a whole generation of engineers and yes, nerds.

Great works of SF change the world. 1984. Brave New World. 2001. Star Trek. Neuromancer. Stranger in a Strange Land. Farenheit 451. Frankenstein. 20,000 Leagues. Asimov’s Robots. True Names. Mostly written, as you’ll see.

Star Wars wins, hands down

mrd — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 21:20:49 -0800

I remember a time when Star Wars fans were "cool" and Trek fans were "nerds". This was, of course, a matter of perception - there is a lot of overlap in the fandoms- but the image of "Trekkies" were nerds in costumes at conventions. Star Wars fans were "normal" people who liked the movie. But then the prequels came out. People camped out for weeks before hand, often in costume. As it turns out, it was the lack of an outlet and new material that had kept the SW geeks from sinking to the low level of the worst Trekkies, but now that difference has been erased. The two have saturated culture so much that there is no shame in either knowing what a Wookiee OR a Klingon is, but if you can spell Wookiee, or speak Klingon, you've entered the nerd zone as far as most people are concerned.

Now, as to which has more influence, it has to be Star Wars. Star Wars was Woodstock for my generation. You'd be hard pressed to find a person in film under the age of 45 who wouldn't say SW was a major influence in their decision to get in the industry. Star Trek may have affected a smaller number of people more deeply, but Star Wars just wins on the numbers.

Why future is just as fulfilling for me in this respect

Eric H — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:15:12 -0800

I like this argument for a "past" scenario. In fact, the underlying reason is pretty much the same one I have for personally favoring a "future" one: the ending will have more meaning for me if it makes a direct connection to us. How we think about technological evolution matters. How we define personhood matters. How well we differentiate individuals vs. entire groups matters. Even if the show ends up being set in an allegorical universe and not ours, these themes will resonate. But how much more striking if the promise of Crossword, Part II is realized and we finally see that the BSG universe is our own.

Personally, I would find this connection just as strong in a future vs. past plot, because it might challenge us to think about the paths we are blazing now. We can make our future what we want it to be. Even "change" it from the future visualized in BSG. Not to get all Pollyanna about things, but this level of dramatic purpose can transform good storytelling into great.

Practice Makes Perfect

Anonymous — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:49:06 -0800

Dude. I'm responsible for about 90% of the anonymous posts here. I don't want some random guy rolling up and abusing anonymous after this week. I'm not taking the heat for that and am too lazy to create an account, so don't mess it up or Brad will bring down the hammer.

As for making stuff up, I'm just borrowing from stuff I've learned in work and material I've viewed. Anyone who knows anything about branding and marketing, the entertainment industry, and sci-fi output around the world would recognise most of what I've said. It's sound enough.

"Making stuff up" is a bit of a sore point around here at the moment but reality and relevance to the audience are important issues. Good technique and the background culture is a foundation that flows into creating opinions or TV shows. As with all things, practice makes perfect.

Sure, I write bullshit but, by God, it's great bullshit. RDM, take note.

Someone to walk all over me

brad — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:43:00 -0800

I wasn’t planning to post on this episode right away, but readers need a place to put comments, so I will start with some thoughts. The episode was a good one but wasn’t tremendously surprising to some. Many were of the opinion that Boomer was still working for Cavil and they were right. And we’ve always known that Starbuck was under the influence of the mysterious string-puller who showed her a vision of Leoben and gave her a destiny. Now that we know the Final Five wake-up wasn’t part of their own plan or Cavil’s, it has to have come from the string-puller, who likes All Along the Watchtower (whether Anders wrote it or not.) And Hera’s been involved in the visions of the Opera House, which are also clearly the work of the string-puller/One-true-god.

Still, the depth of the betrayal was good and shocking. The kidnapping in a box. The sex. The building of a complete fantasy world, complete with kid, to seduce Tyrol. When she leaves him, she tells him she truly felt all that.

Perhaps she did. This is the Boomer who, along with Caprica Six, seemingly saved the human race by convincing the Cylons not to kill them on New Caprica. She betrayed Adama and shot him, but due to programming. Now she’s ready to betray those she loved, as she betrayed her own model line.

Is it possible that she has been programmed by Cavil? This would disappoint me, I want my characters to be acting of their own will, make their own choices for their own reasons, but it is not out of the question here. The other, nice alternative is that she and Tyrol had a plan ready to betray Cavil (“I’m not sure I can do this on my own”) though it is clear that Tyrol didn’t realize a Hera kidnapping was part of what was going on. Where did he think he was sending her? To wander the stars in a Raptor until she runs out of air? Why did she ask him to come with her?

And I liked the stronger use of piano music. Though I kept expecting them to break out into “Someone to watch over me” at some point, not the All Along the Watchtower bass line.

A few other notes:

A Stream of Stars

Michael Hall, who has been diligent in finding Earth star patterns in recent episodes, has now found them in too many places, including the Ionian Nebula from the start of season 4 and after jumps from there. In spite of what seemed like a strong message with:

The most well known constellations being presented blatantly over the Cylon battle location and other locations
The use of random constellations over the 13th colony

May be just poor work on the part of the graphics dept. Clearly they have two modules for doing their backgrounds in post, one for the real solar system stars, another for random stars. They never used the real system stars until season 4, which seemed like a signal, but they’ve used them willy-nilly. While they would not expect most fans to have fancy star pattern matching software, the use of Orion and the Big Dipper did not require this to match.

So we have to seriously reduce the confidence we can make in predictions based on those star patterns.

Anders’ last words

Anders’ memories caused him to shout out “stay with the fleet. It’s coming. The miracle.” to the others. Doesn’t Ellen have these memories? It sure seems she would be asked about them, but we still learn no more.

That Seven

While we are told to not expect much more of Daniel in this show (though those saying he is Starbuck’s dad got a boost) we should pay attention to the exact wording of what they said about him. When Ellen talks of Daniel, Cavil says, “that seven was…” This suggests there were, at that time, multiple sevens. And Anders, though mumbling words, calls him “the Daniel.” So Daniel might not have been the original #7, though Cavil does seem to have shut down the further duplication of that line.

Poor Galactica

It will be sad when she breaks up. Just a few more jumps. We at least learn that jumping inside a ship is bad news. And it was so nice to see the cliche space opera scene of the ship racing for the closing doors of the launch bay — and this time actually hit the wall. Of course the bad guys always do hit the wall in that scene after the good guys sneak through, and Boomer is now fully bad guy. Curious that the Tylium ship was able to jump away while vipers were trying to land on it to board it, and they were not hurt.