Brad Ideas - How would I end it? - Comments

LA Times RDM Interview

Lisa — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:55:06 -0700

FYI, RDM just clarified in today's LA Times interview that Baltar did not die on Caprica only to be resurrected off-screen:

How did Baltar survive the nuclear explosion?

RDM: Well, he survived the nuclear explosion because if you look at the shot when the windows are blown in, you see that Caprica Six is actually protecting him at the moment -- she kind of grabs him and shields him with her body.

Writers Retreat

Alvin — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:38:30 -0700

Even if the ending didn't change, the course to get there certainly did, and that's what i'm intrigued by. As i've said, it's not the answers we've gotten that have bothered me, but the way we got them, and the episodes themselves that frustrated me. I would love to hear their original plan for season 4.

Listening to the podcast it

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:53:17 -0700

Listening to the podcast it sounds like no major ideas changed, just how they got there. Especially since he says some scripts barely changed from inception to screen. For some scripts to not change the story arc itself had to be somewhat untouched. Unless he meant the scripts didn't change from the 2nd revision to the screen, but given the way Ron said it, highly unlikely.

Adama's house only came up

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:50:23 -0700

Adama's house only came up with his ex-wife. Unless a flashback is missing in the first hour of Daybreak.

Strike!

Alvin — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:16:14 -0700

"We will get to hear where the changes were made and when and what the thought was behind them."

I am eagerly anticipating this portion of the extras, probably moreso than I am looking forward to the finale. The writer's motivations for such an event (the strike, and how it completely altered their plans) really fascinates me.

Of course, it could just frustrate me if it turns out that their original pre-strike version ultimately turns out to have been a better ending.

He calls them "messengers"

brad — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:17:21 -0700

And he has been for a while now, since it was revealed the final five had them.

The question that comes to my mind, is are they independent beings, or is this just the OTG speaking in these forms? If they are independent beings (and not mystical spirits) what is their seat of physical being? Are they AIs hiding in the ships? Are they a 2nd personality installed into a brain? Are they beings who can transmit FTL into a brain?

Last Frakking Special

Lisa — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:10:22 -0700

Found the source of the angel reference I made earlier. Forever A Fangirl mentions that:

Also in the "BSG Last Frakking Special" tonnight creator Ron Moore says quite plainly that Chip/Head!Six/Six in the red dress as well as other "Head!" characters, plus one assume's, Adama's house, were "angels," not chips (nor hallucincations).

I don't get the "Adama's house" reference. Does anyone else?

Yup lots of angel talk

brad — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:44:19 -0700

And it’s hard not to have it remind you of the Seraphs/Beings of Light. I don’t think we’ll see benevolent aliens here, though I think the OTG is their equivalent.

BTW, one other vision: Young Adama sees an arm reach out of a resurrection tank, and is shown tortured people, at the end of the first war. Roslin sees other visions too, like ancient Kobol and the serpents.

And the Oracles, they get messages. Oracles told Starbuck’s mother of her destiny. Selloi told D’Anna a message from the Cylon god that she said had been relayed to her by the Lords of Kobol. Starbuck visited another Oracle who knew all about her fun with Leoben.

No, you don’t have to be a Cylon to receive these messages. If you took that logically, it means they are all Cylons since real humans don’t have a mechanism to have visions beamed into our heads.

Quoted You

Lisa — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:35:23 -0700

Aaron: I quoted you in my most recent BSG post. I hope that's OK.

Seraphs

Lisa — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:30:02 -0700

Thanks! I'll see if I can dig up where I read what Moore said recently. I thought it was Mo Ryan's The Watcher blog, but I'm not seeing it.

Incidentally, in the scripts for TOS, the Beings of Light were referred to as Seraphs.

Angels aplenty

Eric — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:06:19 -0700

Don't know about RDM, but there's been a lot of Angel talk on the show lately:

Anders referred to a great gift from the Angels in his last words before brain surgery;
I think Anders also said that some of the final five interpreted the head people they saw on Earth 2,000 years ago as Angels, warning them of the coming cataclysm;
Baltar has recently been preaching about visions of Angels (Exhibit A: Head Six, whom he sees with "alarming regularity" - a great line).

I'm guessing that to the extent "Angels" are revealed, their identity will be ambiguous, but I'd be surprised if we don't see something along these lines in the finale.

Roslin NOT the dying leader

Jimmy — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:36:10 -0700

The dying leader is Galactica. The vision of 12 serpents were the 12 Cylons. The Cylons were a sign of things to come. Galactica will not make it to the promised land.

Head Characters

Lisa — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:32:58 -0700

I'd like to see scenarios #2, please. I still think the head characters are the Lords of Kobol -- perhaps just one of them acting as a messenger (OTG/One Whose Name Cannot Be/Jealous God). Didn't Moore recently confirm that the head characters were "angels?" Frak, I can't remember where I read that.

Kara's ancestry, head people, and visions

Aaron — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:11:08 -0700

Since RDM confirms that Daniel is not Kara's father, I started wondering how she saw a head person. Granted, we still don't know how anyone sees head people. Without much explicit evidence though, I've generally thought you need to be not-quite-human to see them. The constant teasing (until recently) that Baltar was a cylon fed this speculation. here's a likely incomplete list of those who do see head people [viewer (Head Person)]:

1. Kara (Slick)
2. Baltar (Six, Baltar)
3. Six (Baltar)
4. Maybe Tigh seeing Ellen's face on the Six when she's in the brig.

these apparitions have a common quality: They are perceived as a part of the present action by the viewer, and the viewer alone. The viewer even experiences them as a physical entity, as Baltar does when head Six gets him up again to challenge the marine in front of his harem's quarters.

There is one more type of vision/head person in the show. This is the 'time between the jumps' vision experienced by Roslin in which she is guided by virtual Elosha. Here the viewer is witness to a possible future in which a version of themself appears. The viewer is unable to intervene in events they witness.

Finally, there is Starbuck's vision of saying goodbye to her dying mother in 'Maelstrom', guided by virtual Leoben. This is similar to Roslin's between the jumps vision (there is a guide, a time that has not/did not exist is visited)...but, Starbuck the viewer is able to interact with the characters in the vision, unlike Roslin. Also, even if Starbuck is somehow 'jumped' at the end of 'Maelstrom' rather than blowing up, she experiences this vision prior to it, as a nearby Lee hears her on com after the vision is complete. Thus, it cannot be a 'between the jumps' moment.

I don't include the Opera House visions, or Roslin's 'I'm not ready to die' vision of her mother, because they are much more like dreams than waking visions.

I'm motivated to bring all this up because I am hoping for a consistent (within BSGs internal logic) explanation of the visions this Friday. Furthermore, I would be very surprised if the origin of head people is not somehow related to the doings of the OTG/SP. Still...

here's what would be disappointing: The OTG/SP is speaking to a chosen few thru head people. Why? Because he wants to. How? um, because he can. Why don't others in the cast have head people? because they don't. I suppose it comes down to the issue of why some characters have head people and others do not--if they can address this, they will by default also be addressing the origin of the head people.

Some guesses:

1. Head people are a mechanism of the OTG revealing itself to humans and cylons, but the mechanism is sexually transmitted--thus the OTG will only reveal itself when cylon and human merge into one race/civilization. Thus Baltar sees head six after sex with real six, Kara sees her dad after sex w/Anders. The OTG can already appear to Cylons, but chooses not to most of the time. However, Callie didn't see head people--this rules out the idea, I suppose.

2. Baltar and Kara are not normal colonial humans, but are both some kind of intermediate cylon type being. The OTG manifests as head people after their first resurrection experience. Baltar's occurred way back in the miniseries, as his first self was blown to bits by nukes. Kara's occurred after the events of 'Maelstrom'. Once again, the OTG manifests as head people in cylons at will.

3. Following on an idea in a Dan Simmons novel, the OTG somehow occupies the 'space between' the FTL jumps. The OTG can either show you visions within the jump (Laura) or infect you and appear to you in waking life (Kara, Baltar). Still, this is pretty weak, as it doesn't explain why every one in the fleet doesn't experience head people.

Realistically, I think that the basis of Laura's visions between the jumps will not be addressed during the finale, remaining a loose end. Nor will Kara's Maelstrom vision (and possibly dad as well), and instead will be left as an unexamined side-effect of whatever force makes Kara special.

I'll stand my ground though in demanding a plausible explanation for who and what Baltar's head six is, and why only a select few characters experience head people.

Space Between Life and Death

Lisa — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:53:12 -0700

Speaking of bright, white light, in "Maelstrom" right before Starbuck disappears her face is flooded with a bright, white light. We don't see her POV, we can surmise that she sees the Eye of Jupiter again since she saw it previously in the episode. When we see Lee's POV there is nothing like that, but that doesn't mean that Starbuck doesn't see it. In fact earlier in the ep she was the only one to see it.

Whoever goes through the singularity will be existing briefly in an "in between" space -- that "space between life and death" that D'Anna was obsessed with. This motif shows up again and again in BSG -- beaches and now doorways are just two examples. Roslin's sisters and Zak might show up to whomever travels through the singularity.

How would I end it?

brad — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:08:56 -0700

How will the two part final episode go down? There are many good possible predictions, but nobody on the outside truly knows.

But given the constraints that the ending is sad and dark, here’s how what I would want to see. Not what we necessarily will see.

The Final Five will die, in the course of saving humanity and uniting humanity and all the Cylons except probably Cavil. This is a classic rule of tragedy. They had good intentions, but spawned evil in spite of them, and so they will die making it right.
There is not enough time for the “string puller” to appear as an on-screen character, but…
The string puller will provide some expository explanation of things, speaking through head characters to everybody who has had a head character. She will announce who she really is. Baltar will see her has a Six. Six will see her as a Baltar. Roslin will see her as an Elosha. Starbuck will see her as a Leoben and/or her father. Adama will see her as the first Hybrid. The Final Five will see her in the form of the messengers they saw 2,000 years ago.
Most of it will be shown as a Six explaining things to Baltar, but interspersed will be clips of the same story being told to the others.
Baltar and Caprica Six will work together with the Final Five and create a computer virus which infects the ships of Cavil’s factions to disable them. In addition, this virus will remove the inhibitors from Cavil’s centurions. This will help redeem Baltar for his role in allowing such a virus to be inserted into colonial systems.
One of the Final Five, Sam, will pilot the Galactica against Cavil’s forces and crash it into them. This may play a role in planting the virus, which may be done by the others in the final Five.
When Ellen goes out on her suicide mission to recruit the Simons and Dorals, Bill says to Saul, “It’s too bad she won’t live. But then again, who does?” (Ok, not really.)
For added irony, the lobotomizing of the raiders should interfere with their ability to defend the Colony. (Though not too ironic as unlobotomized raiders would not attack the F5.)
Baltar lives because he needs to play a role in saving Hera and raising her to be the first of the joined generation.
Athena and Helo die. But before they do, they become convinced either by virtual beings, or by the Final Five, that it is god’s plan that Baltar and a Six raise Hera.
Boomer dies saving Hera from Cavil and getting her partway out.
The head-beings explain who the Lords of Kobol were, and what happened when the 13th tribe was expelled, and when the rest were expelled 2,000 years later. Their fate may be revealed.
The head being reveals that the Lords of Kobol were once humans on the ancient homeworld of humanity who developed A.I. and elevated themselves to godlike status. They took their Children with them and settled on Kobol after a man-machine war, and lived with a paradise among them. The String Puller herself was a woman on the ancient home. Her DNA, in archives has been re-used from time to time, most recently by the Final Five to make one of the 8 Cylons they made.
She reveals that even the humans are artificial, though much closer to original humanity than the Cylons. Starbuck had to die and be recreated to show them that even humans like her are children of God.
The Simons and Dorals, given the full scoop about their creation by the Final Five, rejoin with the rebels. Cavils are mostly killed by Centurions and fleet forces. All Cylons and humans are now united.
The String Puller reveals that this union was the goal of all the troubles and mysteries. She appears to Starbuck as her father and shows them the way to a new, blue planet. Roslin dies in orbit over the planet.
The fleet settles on the planet. It is the real Earth. On it are ancient ruins of the Pyramids, Mt. Rushmore, New York, all destroyed for many thousands of years, but the planet is inhabitable. The date is revealed. A.D. 8,000.
Baltar and Six will raise Hera, along with the combined and united Cylons, Centurions and humans, who vow to make more like her and end the Cycle.
Cut to a street in New York. A.D. 2009. We see a Six, but slightly different, in her red dress. She has just receieved her PhD in Artificial Intelligence. She’s out on the town, celebrating. She purchases a copy of Electric Ladyland by The Jimmy Hendrix Experience. She smiles.

(As noted, some of the things here are based on constraints and information that has leaked out. I would not do the final scene in New York that way, and I think making Baltar in charge of Hera doesn’t make a lot of sense but it’s been predicted so much, which means Helo and Athena have to die.)