Brad Ideas - Caprica Review (spoilers after the break) - Comments

Similarities

brad — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:34:38 -0700

Well, the final five have not arrived at this point, and the past Cylon you refer to is from their planet, not from Kobol as far as we know. And the projection they do is also from their planet. If it came originally from Kobol, it’s not clear how it got to Graystone, except as you say through the intervention of agents of the god.

Maybe,,,,,

Nick — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 15:23:04 -0700

Greystone designs a holo technology thats very similar to Cylon tech past and future....
He's even designed a Cylon that looks like a past and future Cylon...
Isn't it possible that his hand is being guided by someone? Perhaps via his remarkably brainy daughter. Who in turn is possibly being manipulated by Sister Clarice? I got the definite impression she knew how things were going to turn out for Zoe. I cant wait to see more.

I still think RDM got it

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:38:44 -0700

I still think RDM got it wrong and his attempts to reinvent aether don't make it go any better. After the final series frnachise killer I'm not looking forward to 'The Plan'. It's like some drunk in the bar who can't stop taking one last swing. BSG could've ended much better and opened the door to a more interesting and greatly expanded universe but RDM killed that dead because he was too arrogant or vain to admit he'd lost the plot. Something less blatant and what I fear will be a technocratic TV movie would be prefered but I'm not sure RDM can deliver that.

...oh. Wow.

DS — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:03:02 -0700

'Cylon projection is obviously this holoband. Remember the strange device in CIC in the BSG miniseries, perhaps that's the advanced emitter. '

The first sentence is no new thought for me -- even if Tyrol can Project, it's only with Boomer's help from memory, and it certainly takes him by surprise ('Someone To Watch Over Me' -- hey, look at my Wiki impersonation...!). There's simply too much to plumb as a writer in terms of Projection/VR to not go there somehow.

But the second sentence is something I totally did not consider. If the Cylons could not only Project but to a limited degree force Projection, then we have an explanation for the shared Visions of Laura, Baltar and Boomer regarding the Opera House. All prophetic value aside, I'd really appreciate a slightly less 'divine' explanation for those shared visions/dreams. And then there was the episode with Adama seemingly Projecting with his ex- (and presumed dead) wife. To me, that was a clincher: of course he's a Cylon if he can do that -- especially considering the emphasis on Projecting at around that time in the series. But that'd make Baltar a Cylon too, because he's technically been Projecting since the destruction of the Colonies...oh man, is EVERYONE a cylon? (Of course not).

So I like this! The notion of forced VR interpretted as visions. And while the Cylons themselves might not be able to see the future, they have an 'Angel' on their side too, in the form of Six's 'head' Baltar -- who I hope to see more of in 'The Plan'.

Sure, the ultimate answer is still 'Gog did it', but I much prefer His mysterious ways over the blatant, and I get the feeling so does He.

My point is that the

brad — Fri, 29 May 2009 23:42:28 -0700

My point is that the holobands and Cylon projection are obviously not the same technology, but independent inventions of the same or similar tech. Cylon projection dates back to Earth or Kobol, while holobands were developed on Caprica, independently, by Graystone. He did not get them from the Earth Cylons. They were not even there yet. On the other hand, as they are compatible, I presume the projection of the 7 Cylons came from the Earth Cylons, not from the holobands. Though it could be either, but as the 7 Cylons were made by the Earth ones, that route makes more sense.

Centurions were also created

JrzRob — Fri, 29 May 2009 18:45:40 -0700

Centurions were also created by the 13th tribe. The creation of the technology repeats itself.

There is no reason to not believe the first Cylons on Kobol began as centurion machines... It all happened before and it all will happen again. If that is the case, you can only conclude that if Tyrol can project, then the Kobolian/Earth Cylons also had virtual reality technology programs at one point. The first centurion on Caprica was made using virtual reality, Zoe is a virtual being, all Cylon projection does is project a virtual world, it's not real, it is a virtual reality, and it came from the same creator at the same time... It is CLEARLY an evolution of the holoband technology.

Holobands and projection

brad — Wed, 27 May 2009 14:08:28 -0700

While holobands and Cylon projection are both examples of virtual reality via direct interface, there is no particular reason to see a connection. VR systems are very frequent things in SF stories and dramas. In this case, the Cylon projection was obviously developed by the 13th tribe Cylons on Kobol or Earth-1 (Tyrol is able to do it, after all) and thus would be unrelated to the holobands made by Graystone, at least unrelated in technological ancestry — they may be using the same concepts.

V-Club

winston — Wed, 27 May 2009 13:09:28 -0700

The V-Club is the Opera House. At least it appears to look a bit like it in the DVD extras when the lights are up. Cylon projection is obviously this holoband. Remember the strange device in CIC in the BSG miniseries, perhaps that's the advanced emitter. Once out of range of these emitters, you are out of range of the signal and ability to download. To me, Caprica explained a lot left unresolved in BSG. I am really looking forward to how this series develops and how the humans deal with the various stimuli that come their way. Whether the science is workable is as immaterial to me as knowing how FTL works or whether Mitochondrial Eve was a good choice from a technical standpoint (i.e., to me, this is no documentary but an exploration of humanity).

Caprica

Alvin — Wed, 06 May 2009 19:30:53 -0700

My feelings on caprica are very much the same as yours. It is flawed both story-wise and acting-wise, but I feel it has loads of promise. One wonders how we'll look back on this movie if the series sticks and the characters and story are allowed to fully develop. I am curious to see what these characters will be like once they are fully formed and given greater depth over time.

One point about the advanced technology:

You call their use of cars a sort of anachronism, but I don't (more below). I got the impression that Graystone was one of a very select few with access to this kind of advanced technology, either due to his inventing it, or perhaps even his wealth. It's possible that Caprica (and the colonies) are undergoing a sort of technological renaissance, and old technologies will slowly be replaced (or they would were it not for a certain robot uprising).

You will also note that automobiles today are still essentially the same as they were 80 years ago and are still in use, despite the fact that our technology has progressed a thousand fold, and our society is radically different than the 1920's (feels like the dark ages when we look at it now). Cars may be different cosmetically and the technology that operates them is more advanced, but they are more or less the same. I don't find their use of cars that odd.

That was my point

brad — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:53:04 -0700

The F5 probably didn’t change their nature much. Cavil probably didn’t make the bodies, by the way, as he doesn’t understand resurrection tech on his own. The F5 made their own bodies for the trip, they probably made the spares that Cavil had. He understands something of Cylon-making though

"I am not sure how readily

JrzRob — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:05:47 -0700

"I am not sure how readily they could change their own programming. They came from a society where they lived as humans from all we can see. They abandoned resurrection which is quite telling."

The technology was abandoned centuries earlier, and they had to reinvent it... You'd have to also conclude that they had to reinvent the technology used to make a new body to download into, since one without the other is pointless. The bodies they downloaded into when leaving their Earth were not the same human bodies they lived in while on their Earth.

In addition, Cavil killed all of them at one point or another, so the bodies they are in at the time of the fall are not even the same bodies they arrived in during the Cylon war. And seeing how Ellen downloaded again into at least a 3rd new body, 3 times removed from the one she was born with, you'd have to conclude that Cavil has a few extra copies of their bodies locked away in storage somewhere, especially given the fact that part of his "thing" was to keep killing them over and over until they admitted he was right about humans and they were wrong about them.

They never mentioned having extra bodies with them as a way of surviving the 2000 year travel, they survived it by other means, so the extra bodies were made by Cavil, using the same technology that made him and the other models, which was in fact the technology used by the Final 5 to begin with, so their programming would have to be the same.

I haven't made it past the

Josiah — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:54:15 -0700

I haven't made it past the first lesbian make-out scene, but hopefully I'll have some publishable thoughts on Caprica once I do.

F5 projection

brad — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:20:31 -0700

I am not sure how readily they could change their own programming. They came from a society where they lived as humans from all we can see. They abandoned resurrection which is quite telling.

However, it seems to me that a society advanced enough to make digital beings is likely to have had virtual worlds long before that. I mean we’ve been dreaming of it for decades, and have our simple attempts like Second Life and the various fictional forms of it.

So I see it the other way around. VR has been present in SF for some time, and the Cylon projection comes from that history, as does the VR in Caprica and Virtuality. Cylons would have a VR interface because if you were a metal being, of course you would have such an interface. It is not necessary to explain it through Zoe’s history. However, this doesn’t mean that the show won’t explain it that way, it probably will — it’s just not necessary.

"I expect we’ll see more

Anonymous — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:54:43 -0700

"I expect we’ll see more of th virtual clubs. TV producers love VR, it lets them get away with so much. Like most TV VRs, the VR goggles are tiny things which must be beaming directly into the brain rather than the eyes. This reminds one of Cylon projection"

There is a very valid reason as to why the two seem to be alike. The centurions wanted to be more human in everyway possible and if they stil havd the memories of Zoey, they would see VR as a way to achieve this goal.

Some how I can see this being true and cylon projection just becoming an evolved version of the holoband. The final five may not have had this ability until they met the centurions and had it added into their programing as they created the eight.

VR in tv and movies

brad — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:29:49 -0700

VR in TV and movies has a long history of course. It’s often done as sending images directly into the brain, sometimes done as goggles in a tank, and of course there is the Star Trek “holodeck” style where it is a solid-yet-fluid 3D projection. Moore has a fascination with it — he has or had a series called “Virtuality” in development which was all about it.

It’s not surprising they went with the “beam into the brain” approach from a logistic standpoint. The “holodeck” style is far from the technology they have in the BSG universe. And it hurts the drama if characters have to get all wired up and put on heavy goggles and get into a special tank. In SF, it’s more common to find people who have had a neural implant surgery to get things beamed into their brains. The first TV SF to have VR and cyberspace was the 1976 Doctor Who episode “The Deadly Assassin” where they put a crown of sorts on their heads and lay down. Way ahead of its time.

Caprica Review (spoilers after the break)

brad — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:45:14 -0700

The prequel series, Caprica, is now available on DVD and for download. Caprica is set 56 years before the first Cylon war, and deals with the origin of the metal Cylons. This meta review provides links to some of the recent low-spoiler reviews. As you will read in all of them, Caprica is very different in tone from BSG. It’s a drama set on a planet, not a space opera.

My disappointment with how BSG was ended lowered my expectations for Caprica, which is of course a good thing. You always enjoy a work more when you go into it with lower expectations. In an ideal world, one would wish for a way to get great recommendations on worthwhile things that don’t raise high expectations — you would enjoy life more. It was the high expectations I put on BSG that in part led to the ending being such a letdown.

However, the overall review is positive. If you did not know it was Battlestar, you could treat Caprica as near-future SF set on Earth. If you didn’t have the references to polytheistic religion, in fact, a viewer would be hard pressed to spot differences from a typical tv-SF depiction of a decade or two in the future. Of course, the religion is important in this show, as it became important in BSG. While the God of Galactica (Gog) does not show it’s face directly, we must wonder if it will do so later. However, the religion is fundamental to the plot in that many of the characters do very dramatic things motivated by their religious beliefs. Which is perfectly fine, of course — some people mistook my criticism of the presence of an interventionist god in BSG as criticism of religion playing a role in a story.

You will get some items from Caprica that help explain important elements of BSG. They are more subtle than normal, but there. So the verdict is to watch it, though you will also do fine waiting the 8 months for it to appear on the air. The DVD version contains a bunch of mostly lesbian makeout scenes which won’t show on TV; presumably they are there to keep the boys titillated. They occur — no spoiler here, as you see this in the first 2 minutes of the show — in a virtual reality club which is the setting for a number of scenes in the show. It may be a bit surprising at first to see the Capricans using technology far beyond what is seen on BSG when it comes to computers and robotics. Obviously the colonies had a minor Butlerian jihad after the Cylon war. This was hinted at several times during the BSG series.

But now on to the spoilers…