Brad Ideas - Battlestar - Comments

My first impression of

Anonymous — Fri, 16 May 2008 04:36:36 -0700

My first impression of Starbuck's Viper exploding was it may have been an visual artefact from her slipping through a wormhole and she's be back. I'm more used to British TV so seeing a major character killed off only to return later isn't a novelty. Returning in a squeaky clean Viper and the fact that Ron Moore and Jamie Bamber seem to have a few cross-cultural conversations in their private time looks worth noting.

It's looking pretty strongly like Kara's mind was scooped up at the moment of death and placed ina replica body, and a later episode on earth has something to say about this. Some of the comics point to the Cylons scooping peoples minds to study and embed in prototype bodies, so the general idea looks ballpark. In fact, in one comic this is exactly what happens to Zak.

It's hard to seen how much Ron had planned or how much evolved but we are where we are. One theme that seems to have developed is the idea that humans and Cylons are essentially the same. The biological versus technical implementations are merely different ways of expressing it. My Buddhist take on this is that transcendence, enlightenment, or the evolution of mind is a key theme.

Ron seems to like his symmetry. It's interesting to note that as the Cylons are having to struggle with the issue of permanent death so a door to resurrection opens for the humans. The background static of Baltar commenting on the one god, and a comment from the patient Roslin talks to that 'unless a god was everyone's god it wasn't much of a god' are another interesting hand wave.

That 3 can reveal who the 5

brad — Sun, 11 May 2008 20:27:16 -0700

That 3 can reveal who the 5 are does not guarantee that they are alive. 3 could have met most of the characters who have died, she lived with the fleet until New Caprica, then became an overseer there.

All Cylons would know Joseph Adama’s face, I suspect, he helped create them.

They might not know Zak’s face. They would know Cain’s. These are the main dead characters under consideration.

However, I do agree, it’s probably not somebody dead, other than Joseph or Zak.

NO DEAD PERSON CAN BE THE LAST CYLON

LEONIDAS — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:38:54 -0700

Itaintrite after seeing the last episode SE4 EP6 the hybrid prophesy STATES CLEARLY THAT THE MISSING 3 (DeeAnna) WILL REVEAL THE FIVE THAT KNOW WHERE EARTH IS: SO ALL OF THEM SHOULD BE ALIVE!!!! Otherwise the writers should improvise to bring from the dead either Jack Adama or Helen or Joseph...
SO JUST LIMIT YOUR THOUGHTS TO LIVING persons......
My vote after last episode goes to Captain ADAMA: He started the quest for EARTH soon after escaping the cylons telling the rest of the crew that he knew where to look for it!!
One more thing on the last supper photo: Can anyone here give us a correllation between BSG characters and DaVinci characters according to the place that each character occupies???? (NO MIRRORING NO REVERSAL PLEASE ..JUST STRAIGHT CORRELLATION)

Numbering is a retcon

brad — Wed, 07 May 2008 10:54:36 -0700

RDM didn’t plan at the start to have a special group of 5, I think he wrote that 3rd season.

But he had already declared 12 models and given out numbers 3, 6 and 8, so there was no way to make it be two groups of contiguous numbers.

ellen tigh

Ophiuchus — Wed, 07 May 2008 07:37:23 -0700

I totally disagree about Ellen not doing anything significant in the fleet,
She was heavily involved in politics, moved herself into supporting Tom Zarek, repeatedly asked Adama about Earth, and how long it would take to get there. And least we mention all the influencing she tried to do to Saul to get things changed, done in higher up areas. Further, shes still recurring in his thoughts/delusions. He sees her instead of the Six in the Brig...and its forgiveness and comfort hes drawn to finding in her. And Also, on top of this, one of the utterances of the First Hybrid (Razor) was this: "The pain of revelation bringing new clarity and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing. Enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." I think that Saul "finds" Ellen in the Six so to speak, they are "enemies Brought together by imossible longing". Keep in mind too that Cylons as we know it are capable of induring intense physical demands, Ellen tigh wasnt shot when she died....she was poisoned... and left behind. Maybe her body could have metablozied the poison after a while...and waking up after that, realizing what had been done to her and why...she'd have a MASSIVE HUNGER FOR REDEMPTION..and that redemption could only come in the "Howl of Terrible Suffering".
My two cents.

But then.. if the final 5

Tom — Wed, 07 May 2008 06:02:29 -0700

But then.. if the final 5 had something to do with the programming of the 7, then why would the 7's start count from 1. Meaning, wouldn't the final 5 be models 1 through 5, instead of 8 through 12?

Starbuck Cylon Hybrid and Song Continuity

Gina — Tue, 06 May 2008 18:57:27 -0700

Good point about the "first" hybrid.

It occurred to me, though, that we may be operating on a false assumption that only the cylons are interested in creating hybrids (Hera, the experiments on Caprica, etc.) What if Starbuck is a hybrid created by HUMANS on Caprica after the first cylon war? Perhaps as some sort of genetically engineered "super soldier?"

Let's say Starbuck's dad was a "skin job," maybe a spy sent on a reconnaissance mission some years before the big attack. He could have been captured and "mated" with Starbuck's mother (who would either have volunteered for such an experiment or had been an unwitting participant). Either way, Starbuck's mom would have ambivalent feelings toward her daughter, which could explain her abusiveness.

As this series has shown time and again, cylons aren't always bad ... and humans aren't always good. It would be pretty strong drama for humans to have some "hybrid creating" blood on their hands.

Another possibility is that Starbuck's cylon father and human mother met and fell in love naturally (like Helio and Athena), and that Starbuck's mom found out after the fact (which would, again, explain her abuse toward her daughter).

"Adama is a Cylon"

Itaintrite — Tue, 06 May 2008 15:34:17 -0700

So is it Lee? Or is it William? But aren't we missing one other Adama? Someone who's already dead and wouldn't be able to have heard the song? That's right. Zack Adama!

Crossover?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 May 2008 00:16:38 -0700

If I can obsess my irony thing a bit more, I reckon, Baltar was the chosen one but fumbled the ball big time and in those circumstances the flame tends to pass to someone else. If I had to guess could I suggest that Baltar is the Final Clon but his place in the scheme of things has been hijacked by Starbuck. It's not much of a clue but the Baltar plotline seems to peter out just before the last few episodes.

It could be that Baltar has one of those moments of clarity where he realises it was all his but it turns to ashes in his mouth while Starbuck, who's been hell on wheels for laying waste to every Cylon going finds herself in his place. In the bigger scheme of things one would suggest that the system is self-correcting. The original plan clearly failed but is somehow still on track. Its fundamentals must be broadly right.

Cool theory, huh?

The Final Irony

Anonymous — Mon, 05 May 2008 00:04:43 -0700

There is a suggestion that the essence or spirit of Cylons and humans is the same. Indeed, in Buddhist thought one might consider conciousness a product of the universe and the level or quality of conciousness is coloured by its projection through the form it takes. This is orthogonal to your topic but something to consider in light of the Caprica prequel, the First Hybrid's comments, and the emerging end-game.

I can't make my mind up whether the Final Five are ancient or modern, or decide how much it matters. It's possible to speculate and spoilers suggest it may have some weight that Starbuck died and was remade in an artifical body, would be human in spirit and intent but Cylon in physical form, no be neither one nor the other. Again, it's huge speculation but the Final Five might have this type of quality about them.

The end game seems to be that neither human or Cylon can make that final step on the evolution ladder on their own but can do it if they work together. I'm not entirely convinced this was in Ron's original vision but his plan and audience comment seem to be creating something that squares the circle for both. I guess, in a funny sort of way that's a Final Irony to match the Final Cylon. Kinda neat, that.

Head Baltar

brad — Sun, 04 May 2008 00:10:25 -0700

That is a cute idea, I’m trying to accept it, but the Six in the picture (she’s in there twice) is the red dress Six which I think is head-Six. If it were physical Caprica-Six, it would make more sense for her to have head Baltar.

And the Baltar in the picture is clean shaven, but he’s in the outfit of prophet-Baltar, and we’ve never seen head-Baltar dress in this manner.

However, if we see Head Baltar appear dressed as prophet Baltar, that could add a lot of weight to this thought.

Mores clues to Baltar being the final Cylon

Anonymous — Sat, 03 May 2008 19:53:57 -0700

In the latest episode notice the scene where cheif is jumproping listening to the radio. As soon as he turns it off his half cylon son looks at the radio and starts to protest and the cheif turns back on the radio without seeming to think about it. Who were the Cheif and his son both cylons listening to? BALTAR. The Cheif is at a point of disobediance to anyone around, even the Admiral because of his current state. Despite all of his best efforts to defy baltar in the latest episode he ends up taking his hand at the end of the scene. The only reason people have been ruling out Baltar is because of the Last Supper picture but remember there is only one Baltar in the picture and we know that there are two seperate Baltar entities, Baltar and head Baltar one of which is in the picture and one of which could be final cylon. How else could he project like cylons? How else could he be in another cylon's (six's) head? I believe his head six is his cylon subconcious leading him to do what he must. How else could he have done the things like randomly picking the exact spot to bomb on the tilium asteroid with no knowledge what so ever and survive so many hopeless situations with the cylons if there isn't more to his character. He may have actually been in the photo that was giving to the fleet by six and disproved by Gaeta. It may have been doctored if only to show more detail. In my opinion any clue clue that leads to the final cylon can be linked to Baltar and any clue that seems to disprove a person as being the final cylon can SEEM to be applied to Baltar but if you think hard enough it only SEEMS that and there is a back door that allows an explanation as to why it doesnt apply to him. I think the Last supper was a clever deversion to take the heat away from Baltar as he is the only person in the picture that can actually still be #7.

Human Kara / Cylon Kara

The streaming meanie — Sat, 03 May 2008 13:41:29 -0700

RDM said/implied that the final cylon wasn't in the supper photo. This causes people to either A) assume he's lying or B) overlook a ton of possibilities.

That could well be the case if any of the characters in that photo were replaced by another, identical, character. So the original Starbuck (Cylon Kara) might be the final cylon while the new Starbuck (Human Kara) could be in the photo. Thus, RDM is technically accurate, we have a high drama reveal as Cylon Kara returns to the scene (a major character), and we have an interesting and unexpected plot twist as Human Kara is a true human (from Earth no less), and Cylon Kara is the cylon captured by Earth humans.

The cylon hybrids, however, would still view the Human Kara as the Cylon Kara (they can't tell the difference), who would have led the humans to their end. But, being replaced by Human Kara, she could lead them to their salvation. Yes another dramatic point that would be totally unexpected. "Follow the harbinger of death? Are you kidding me?!?"

It would also explain both the memory loss (and memory retraining from data dumps of the Cylon Kara) of the Human Kara (for everyone's protection no one can know that Cylon Kara has been replaced with a human) and the time period of absence (2 months to replicate a brand new ship and get her to where they know the fleet will be - probably a workable time period with an advanced civilization)

This internal conflict within Human Kara would also possibly lead to her currently displayed erratic behavior. I'm sure play acting like you are a cylon pretending to be a human is not an easy task, especially when the fate of humanity is in the balance, and you know that you are going to have to do some pretty damn dangerous things to make it all work out. That's a crapload of stress!

In addition, what does the first hybrid say regarding Cylon Kara: "She will lead the human race to its end" - Lead? As in 'have followers', as in 'the final four'? - Or lead as in 'traiblazing a path' - like Human Kara is doing now? Regardless of the term, it fits the presented data IF there is both Human and Cylon Karas.

Yes, it's out of the box. But it fits, has the necessary suprise factor, is a major character, meets all dramatic requirements, gives the franchise a way big opening to continue the story in the future, AND gives RDM a way to mislead us all without lying to us.

The Streaming Meanie

Wondering about other selves

brad — Fri, 02 May 2008 13:08:05 -0700

A good question, whether they have other copies or not. Tigh has been shown to ask about his memories, in the revelation scene, he talks about the two wars, but not about the question of how he was born before Cylons were made. Indeed he should be asking, I presume they don’t want to push this question on the audience too hard, we don’t see all they say.

Or it could be conditioning, as you say. We remain entirely uninformed as to why the 5 are sleepers. I am guessing it is part of some plan the 5 have to bring them closer to their human side by regularly making copies who live as human.

It’s less clear, by the way, why Boomer was programmed as she was. The Cylons seem to be good enough actors. Gina, Caprica Six, D’Anna, Doral and the rest all lived among humans undetected, though Baltar sussed out Doral but he may have access to extra info. So it doesn’t make a lot of sense but may just have been a plot device.

Final Five

Anonymous — Fri, 02 May 2008 11:16:30 -0700

The question I have is why the four of the Final Five we have seen haven't speculated on any of the questions you ask about them? Tigh remembers a time before the Cylons and when they were created I presume. Why don’t the newly revealed models wonder about other copies of themselves? I can see them thinking they are regular Cylons but why wouldn’t they wonder if there are more copies like themselves? It could be explained by “to much confusion” or are they programmed not to think about the final five either? Tory said stuff like “I don’t know but like it” and the others seem depressed and confused but the question about other copies some place (maybe they wouldn’t consider some time in the past) seems pretty obvious to me.