Brad Ideas - Burning Man - Comments

I did not mention disneyland

brad — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:23:16 -0700

So I presume you are responding to other threads here?

Anyway, many people view burning man as an experiment in a different, non-commerce oriented way to have a community. As an experiment, we are there to learn and try to make alternative approaches work, or die trying. This doesn't mean that Disneyland is wrong, but it means we're trying to do it differently, so this requires that we not adopt the rules of Disneyland -- even the ones that work -- until it's shown we can't find other ways.

This may be counter intuitive. BM is not trying to be the best countercultural festival it can be. If it were, I agree markets might be the right approach to solve many issues.

Leaving to the north

brad — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:18:00 -0700

I hear many reports of where the chokepoints are. Yes, Gerlach is a leading contender as is Empire. Of course, since friendly relations with the Gerlach business community are important, it is going to be harder to fix this one by trying to make “don’t stop in Gerlach” rules.

I did come up with a solution to the question of people going north, who should indeed get a pass if the chokepoint is past that cutoff. (I think there’s another chokepoint at the turn onto the playa that can be solved with a temporary traffic light rather than a flagger.)

My solution is as follows:

You can buy a exit pass for $20 plus a $300 deposit along with your ticket. At the gate your licence plate is written on it.
You can then use this pass to get into the “going north only” quick exit lane. Bypass the line and zoom north.
When you get to Cedarville, a local 24 hour business (7-11 or gas station) takes your pass, confirms your plate with a photo, and gives you back your deposit. This firm is also paid enough of the $20 to make it worth their while.
The rest of the $20 pays for exodus staff to handle the special exit line and other costs.
You can also redeem your pass on-playa and get a bit more money back if you decide not to use it.
Your plate could also be written on your pass at exit, but I presume time is short. However, the date you left should be recorded so you can’t redeem a pass more than a day after leaving.

However, this only makes sense if there is a way to get the northern departures off the playa without increasing the bottleneck for southern departures.

Gerlach

Leigh — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:53:25 -0700

Actually, the single biggest problem is people trying to stop in Gerlach. If people were unable to stop there that would get rid of the single biggest choke point and traffic would move much faster. Because I live in Canada, I always take the first road off to the right (that takes me over to northern California). As such, if people like me were allowed to selfish-merge up the right hand side (which is impossible or dangerous with the current road), we would actually be speeding up the Exodus process.

Why is Disneyland always used when someone wants to diss BM?

Leigh — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:34:19 -0700

What negative traits do Burning Man and Disneyland have in common?

What Disneyland traits are people are afraid of the Burning Man festival acquiring?

At present Disneyland is/has:
-A large attendance
-A vacation away from "jobs"
-Mostly spectators (not very many participants)
-Very commercial (to the extreme)
-Represents a much larger company that sells products and services
-Trademarked and Logoed (and licenses these for money)
-Has shareholders (via The Walt Disney Company symbol:DIS)
-Is a business
-A fragmented community (very weak social bonds and ties between people who vacation at Disneyland other than the families that arrive together)
-Has a founder (a leader)
-The "art" is very repetitive
-There are lots of "rides" (or interactive art installations)
-It is expensive to "attend"
-It would appear that Disneyland discourages independent thought
-Customers are mostly kids

So... how many of those are intrinsically negative?
Which ones are negative in context?
Which ones are true for BM and Disneyland?
Which ones are becoming true (or are threatening to become true) for BM?

I'm not an expert on Disneyland, but from what I can tell there is nothing wrong with Burning Man taking on some of the more positive traits of Disneyland. The idea of a business creating a large playground for "mostly kids" is not intrinsically wrong. It's just the implementation that I dislike. Moreover, there is nothing wrong with taking something we hate and making it amazing... in fact that's one of the things I LOVE about BM. If there are few (or zero) negative traits in common, I think calling Burning Man an "Alterna-Disney" is unfair. It's just a standard trick for creating backlash or a counter-meme.

human race

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:36:33 -0700

it's human nature that we mourn for better things and for an alternative.. when we get them we rejoice for a while, but then we can't help it.. we just have to trash them.. like it or not it's the state of the human condition... perhaps we need to do it to feel human..

Hahaha! Well as I'm sure you

SofaKing — Tue, 11 Sep 2007 03:54:13 -0700

Hahaha!

Well as I'm sure you know by now they DID rebuild the man and it DID pour rain -- or rather mud from the sky! Fucking awesome year. And rough. Yeah baby!

Hey 'burned out', yah i

yomamamous — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 10:19:47 -0700

Hey 'burned out', yah i agree, in some ways it is a parody of itself, no? it is not being very creative when 'furry boots' and 'furry hat' have become the 'standard required gear'. it is still a fun time though, and there are still plenty of people pushing the limits.

Hey Paul, good question... (start my opinion:) my thought is that they don't want it to be a 'come for 2 nights' kind of thing... IMO you should be in it to win it, or not. you start selling 'day passes' and you will end up with a bunch of tourists that aren't into it, and it will change the event (some say its too late). people already complain about people that just show up for thursday-sunday. not that you can't show up for a couple days and do it right... but to really get into it, i think you need to be out there a couple days just to acclimate and get settled in.

it's not just 'camping', you can go to KOA to camp. this is a radical self reliance experience... you should be coming out, trying to build your own unique camping structure out of a bunch of whatever materials (and make it look sweet!), not just pitching a Costco tent for a couple days. you gotta bring all your water, all your food, safety supplies, tools, structures, you can't buy a darn thing there except ice or coffee. it is meant to be an outside the mainstream experience. you are participating in the wild and crazy city that springs up out of nowhere. look at pictures from burning man, and then compare them to pictures from your local KOA. quite a different experience! have fun at a reno casino for a week, that would blow! and my understanding is that it is a 'participatory' event, IMO meaning you should be displaying some cutting edge or alternative art, or dressing crazy to freak people out, or setting up a camp with free drinks for people or giving massages, or bringing some crazy homebuilt vehicle to give people rides in, or shooting flames out your mouth, or whatever, those are just examples... just something that is contributing to the overall experience. not just showing up like a tourist that is 'going camping for a couple days'. So I guess for me the overall experience is why it is worth it to me, and why it is worth it for me to save my money and take weeks of time getting ready and schedule my vacation time to go. If it is destined for you to go, or if you really want to go, then you will figure out how to make it happen. It ain't for everybody I guess, it is what it is. that is just my opinion, hope that helps! (//end my opinion)

One uncommon problem

brad — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:32:17 -0700

Is that burning man arrivals are spread out over a long period of about 5 days, but everybody wants to leave in a few peak periods. Festivals that have a more definite arrival time have to deal with it in both directions, and usually the venue is selected to deal with this. Burning Man picked its venue long ago when it was tiny, and it's in a very remote location with only one small 90 mile long road for most of the people coming.

Common problem at any festival

Moz — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 22:27:12 -0700

I go to a (european) new year festival held in a valley with one exit. It's really bad for motorists, because the three or four roads around inside the valley converge on one narrow, steep exit road. To get in with their crutch, motorists have already chosen not to take the bus either from the head of the valley or from town, so we're not dealing with very smart people. The solution that this festival uses is to rank cars up in a carpark and release them in order, and encourage them to stop their engines while they wait. That concentrates the queue and reduces idling time as well as making it more social.

But the real solution is to cut down the number of motor vehicles. Last year bikes were free (had to buy a ticket but no car permit, $20 or so), buses were $5 each way per person (so three people in car saved money if you don't count fuel costs), next year it's going to cost more for the cars, and the buses will be cheaper I think.

It might not work on the playa, but for us we're trying to get a walking track put in, because right now you're not allowed to walk down the access road. It was hard enough to get bikes allowed, but we're working on pedestrians. It's only ~3km up or down, but it's about 3 hours drive at peak times.

The Vietnamese and Chinese new year festivals I go to just use the interminable queue system that burning man does. Which sucks, but those are not events that I can influence.

The military should set up a

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:38:55 -0700

The military should set up a recruiting staion there. Alot of wingnut misfits and liberals with nothing better to do than squat in the desert and hum mantras to their pagen gods.

Cult!

eyes wide open — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:40:44 -0700

CULT!

Burning man has already sold it's ass people!

addis for prez — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:18:18 -0700

Burning man has rolled over and took it in the but by making BM 2007 look like a science fair. I shake my head and decieded after so many years of asking myself why I go will no longer. I mean look you have vandals, yuppies and now coperate sponsorship? And for those of you who hate it and wished it ruined....... It already is! This is mainstream now and like everything once pristean and fresh once it hits the yuppies and the weekend warriors it's fucked. Look up above you have moms sending off their daughters and kids around the campus making it seem like a goddamn themepark.. Jeez! Shame on you BM HQ should of keep it small and kept it real. So sad!

Burned out

addis for prez

I meant to type $45.00 in the heading

paul — Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:17:30 -0700

I meant to type 45 in the heading above and I also spelled desert wrong so don't give me crap about that.

$40.00 to $50.00 a night to camp? Damn!

Paul — Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:13:37 -0700

$40.00 to $45.00 a night to camp in the desert? I recieved a brochure from The Nugget casino in Reno not far away and it had rooms for $49.00. And don't say they make it up in gambling because most people go to downtown reno to gamble. What if you just go there for three days? $100.00 a night to camp in the desert and one fireworks show? Why do they charge everyone for the entire week? Why not charge at the gate from that day on? Some people have jobs and can't get an entire week off to go screw around in the derert so we have to pay costs for the entire week? That's bullshit! I would like for somebody to explain that without sounding like a clone.

Paul M

huh? yes, it is a total

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Sep 2007 20:05:43 -0700

huh? yes, it is a total rip-off, a scam, a con, and it is the worst time you will ever have in your life. please don't ever go! jealous maybe? enjoy your bitter prejudice life!