Brad Ideas - memory - Comments

Versed and Pain

Kathy — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 06:42:09 -0700

In response to the RN that works with Versed all the time, I have an obvious question.....If a person you thought was asleep having a medical procedure done on Versed comes out of it and said they were in pain throughout the entire procedure, how are they going to tell you? You stated that you don't know if a person is in pain unless they advise you that they are....Versed paralyzes people so they can be in pain, and will try to scream out for help, but are unable to speak at all. This happened to my girlfriend during a colonoscopy. They didn't give her enough or any pain meds, but dosed her up with versed. She has IBS and was in terrible pain, she tried and tried to scream out and let the Dr know, but was unable to speak or utter a sound. She said it was the most frightening experience of her life....pure torture, she will never have this done again she stated.

Versed,Sodium Pentothal,Ether,whatever......

Anonymous — Fri, 30 May 2008 19:48:18 -0700

I know this is a little off topic,but I needed to get it out.....(thanks for taking the time to listen if you decided to.)
At 8 years old,I was taken to an oral surgeon to have some teeth pulled due to overcrowding. This was in the late 60's.I was taken in to the room,sat in the chair,and then the dr. came in to see me.I was never told anything about what was going to happen,what they were going to do,nothing.I knew I had to have two teeth pulled (Orthodontist had requested it) and that was it. All I was told was that I had a choice.A shot or some gas (General Anesthesia.) I hated needles (as most children would I suspect),so I told him no needles.Then he grabbed the mask,I heard the hissing sound of the ether or whatever they were using as he put it over my face and told me to breath.Within 2-3 seconds,I could feel what was starting to happen and I freaked.I tried to push the mask away,started screaming and thrashing about,and instead of stopping to see what was up for a second,he restrained me with some help from his assistant.He held the mask in place until I passed out from sucking in the gas.Upon coming out of it,I was in a small room off to the side.The only thing I remember (and I remember it vividly) is that I got violent.So bad that I broke the clot and they had to repack my mouth. Some time later,I was taken back to this same Dr.to have two more teeth out.They thought first time was just a fluke. Same thing happened,only this time I was more violent.Blindly swinging, throwing whatever I could get my hands on,etc. I was 9. It was requested that I not be brought back anymore. From that point on,I fought vigorously as far as going to any dentist at all. I had tubes put in my ears at age 12,they put me out in the same manner.They had also pre-sedated me but it failed miserably. The Dr. and hospital staff were warned beforehand of what had occurred before,and I was restrained in the bed so that when I came out of the GA I could be more easily dealt with. To this day,I cannot take or tolerate any form of GA,conscious sedation, or such.I even have to do certain things so I can sleep. If I even consciously notice I am falling asleep,I will not be able to. I will toss and turn until I naturally fall asleep without noticing it. I have very bad dental problems now because of the episodes I went through and the abuse I suffered as a patient and as a child (at various times via my father and my misbehaving.We are now greatest of friends.)To have teeth extracted (they are all shot),I usually have to take something to calm my nerves before I go to the dentist. I take along my mp3 player to listen to while the he/she gives me a local anesthesia and a small amount of nitrous to help me stay calm and pain free. It is a shame that one Dr. and two visits to him (as well as my overhearing, at age 5, when my uncle died that "he went to sleep and never woke up.") caused me the ruination of my teeth by not dealing with things as I should have. I am lucky I have not had to have any surgery for anything as well. I am near 50 now and still have those terrible memories. Sorry to be long winded and a little off topic, but the underlying thing I have seen here is one of patients not being informed,not being listened to,not being offered options (Dr. has his way he likes,why allow change?),and Drs. retaining the "Control mentality".I am not trying to generalize,but the bad apples know who they are.This is for them.Be Well and be in control.Remember,Patients DO have rights. That is why we have lawyers.

Versed and pain

Anonymous — Thu, 15 May 2008 22:03:20 -0700

I was victimized by Versed. I did not feel any pain from my procedure, nor should I have. I elected to remain awake and alert and declined the general anesthesia. The medical professionals bypassed my wishes by injecting me with Versed. Versed IS a patient control drug. Look at the protocol and it will state that part of the objective is a "cooperative" patient. Amnesia is also desired. Too bad for the jerks that Versed didn't cause amnesia, because I could refute their spurious reasons for giving me a GA in defiance of my wishes. They LIED!!! The reason they gave me Versed was for compliance and spoliation. Medical people deserve to be defamed for acting like little demi gods and assaulting patients with this nasty drug. Sneaky, lying, arrogant, sanctimonious, condescending, delusional control freaks that they are!

Versed is NOT liquid Valium!

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 13:48:10 -0700

Versed is NOT liquid Valium! It may be in the same family, but it's very different. Similar to poppy seed bagels being in the same family as Heroin! Same family, very different.

The comments about midazolam

endoscopist — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:46:08 -0700

The comments about midazolam (versed) and it's use in endoscopy, especially colonoscopy are amusing and inaccurate in my opinion. I always thought that it's amnesic properties were a benefit to patients; I no longer believe that. I have had to counsel WAY too many patients following routine exams who are tormented by their amnesia of the event. Midazolam does indeed render most patients imobile and amnesic of a painful procedure; at least temporarily...then their momories slowly creep back in.....and this often leads to a ptsd-type syndrome. Many have suggested that patients who are amnesic are treated roughly; this is unfortunately often true. Try to explain to a family waiting for a patient having a colonoscopy why she was screaming in pain during the procedure.........they may or may not buy the "she won't remember a thing" line. Colonoscopy, in my opinion, is done quite well without sedation, especially in males (straighter colons), or with a small amount of painkiller (fentanyl).....sedation with versed is common because an imobile, amnesic patient is easier to scope.......I don't use midazolam at all anymore........if someone wants to sleep thru the procedure, we use propofol and they are completely out (costs more, but worth it IMHO)..if a patient is in pain (ie screaming), you either stop hurting them or carefully give them narcotics, you don't rely on temporary amnesia from midazolam.........After preaching the benefits of colonoscopy for years, I had one on 12/07, done by an associate who I trust; I eat lunch with her every day. And I had midazolam and it was a bad choice... Even though I do these on a routine basis, I seem to be subconsciously recalling the painful event. I can easily see why this is upsetting and potentially devastating to patients. Nexy year, at my next colonoscopy (lucky me) it's no drugs or fentanyl only. If it's too painful, we can abort the exam and schedule anesthesia.

I've had 3 colonoscopies in

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:01:41 -0700

I've had 3 colonoscopies in the last 7 years, each with fentanyl and versed. They work perfectly for me, and I actually requested them this time because they work so well for me. Much safer than general anesthesia, and i could doze or wake up to talk, and they would show me the polyps they were removing, by showing me the video monitor. I got dressed (although I don't remember that real well, like a dream), have been super relaxed, and went out to lunch with a friend. Now I'm resting at home, and am so glad for pain-killers and benzodiazepines! Clearly some people have a negative experience with versed, but mine was great.

I had Versed for a stent

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 00:35:22 -0700

I had Versed for a stent placement in my heart. I was very nervous about the procedure. As intreveneous Versed was administered I felt extremely relaxed, I felt a euphoric high (similar to pain killers) and I drifted in and out of sleep/consciousness easily woken up when the surgeon spoke to me. I do remember quite a bit of the experience. Over all the Versed made the experience of haveing a wire shoved up my leg and into my chest and heart much, much more bearable.

Versed is basically just liquid Valium. I highly recommend Versed, especially if you have a lot of anxiety about your procedure. I was really scared to have this procedure while being awake but I specifically remeber thinking how great the Versed felt during the procedure.

Watching Surgery

Anonymous — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 19:25:21 -0800

The previous post ignores the fact that in the OR they generally (always?)use a surgical drape. This partitions the portion of the anatomy being worked on, with the excuse (for those of us who want to watch) that the surgical field might be contaminated by the patient watching. A little thin since they are all watching, why can't the patient have a surgical mask too, if we are not knocked out??? Anyway, you as a patient will not be allowed to watch the surgery, no matter what they give or don't give you. So once more Versed is not given for the patient at all is it?

Let's not give this some

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:35:00 -0800

Let's not give this some thought. For someone who has never been given versed, and went through what I personally went through during the use of versed, you have no right to tell someone that we use this drug as an escape to blame are pain upon. It is always so easy for someone to be for something they have never experienced for themselves.

I too had the same reactin

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:19:23 -0800

I too had the same reactin to Versed nightmare. I am now in pursuit of fighting back. I would like it so if you could give me some type of advice or even words of encouragement. Please email me as soon as you get this. Brownis4u2006@yahoo.com

Versed = Drunken Binge

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:27:58 -0800

This is completely untrue in my experience. Versed did NOT make me feel like I was on a happy drunken binge. I was completely awake and aware, but was unable to speak clearly or move under my own volition. It was like they shut off the parts of my brain that controlled my body and my willpower. This sensation caused me enormous distress. If they give you enough Versed you WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MOVE, BREATHE, AND IT CAN STOP EVEN YOUR HEART! Why do you think that only people "trained in airway management" can administer this drug? If you are unfortunate enough to be cognizent of your surroundings during this, it CAUSES anxiety, not alleviates it. It may be different if you are extremely anxious to begin with, which I was not. I have had many MAJOR surgeries prior to the advent and injudicious application of Versed and they were not traumatic, sorry. All those things about hands reaching for you and monitors beeping resulting in panic or terror are a construct of the medical profession who prefer an amnestic and completely compliant unquestioning patient. Of course I had vastly superior medical teams before, who actually took the time to explain things before hand instead of simply sneaking an amnestic (hopefully) drug into the IV. I completely trusted my team and am accustomed to my personal experience with surgery being listened to. I was slipped this drug against my expressed desires in an incredibly disrespectful and stealthy way. There's no way to "research" this attitude in medical staff... I am surprised that you would be "pissed off" at people who've had a severe reaction to this drug. I am certain that dentists' don't give Versed in the same high dosages as surgical suites do. Maybe that's the difference between your experience and mine. By the way, after my encounter with Versed I changed to a dentist who doesn't even have it in his office! I will not be given this drug again, under any circumstances.

heya brad, i have been under

Jhette — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:26:25 -0800

heya brad,
i have been under versed and totally lost hours of my life. one woman lost the whole day. well, this certainly reminds me of the movie
"total recall" and i can't wait until drugs can put good memories in my mind so i can overcome the tragedy. maybe for those of us who believe in God, this is what God does to us.

-- food for thought

The best description I;ve heard.....

Kay — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:04:40 -0800

'The best description I've heard...' Therein lies the problem -- you personally have not had this drug foisted upon you so how do you know for certain how it affects others? Are you saying all those who wrote of the same/similar experience here and on other blogs are liars?

Versed is very helpful and most of the posts here sound off...

CA Gal — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:32:00 -0800

I had my wisdom teeth out last week using the common IV drugs Versed and Fentanyl and I was scared to death after reading this site. I asked what I was going to be given and researched it thoroughly (unlike many people posting on here). These drugs are very safe when used in a supervised evironment by a qualified doctor (more safe than the local anesthesia!). I was so scared of the procedure but what a pleasure that within 30 seconds of entering the room I had the IV in the my arm and 2 seconds later I was out. No time to be nervous, no need to experience the torture of having my teeth removed, then I gently awoke in the recovery area. I had no nausea and no grogginess. How amazing is that?! As far as I concerned this is the best drug ever! As for losing a bit of memory, I don’t recall the procedure or walking to the recovery area, but I started remembering again very shortly after that and I don’t think I missed much ;) Versed makes you groggy so you’re not going to have a long conversation with someone on it, just do some basic things like “open your mouth”. My mom had a colonscopy with Versed and even my grandma did and they both enjoyed how easy it made this uncomfortable procedure.

My friend is an anesthesiologist and she had this to say: So, versed (aka midazolam) is a benzodiazepine. Benzodiazpines, including versed, are often used in a variety of hospital settings for the following reasons: to break seizures, to help with alcohol withdrawal (prevent delirium tremens which are fatal in 50% of cases), to reduce anxiety. Those are the three main indications. A side “benefit” is that versed also prevents the acquisition of new memories during its duration of action, ie, it causes anterograde amnesia. However, this is not the main reason it is used in anesthesia - the main reason to use it is to reduce anxiety. For most people, even if they consider themselves really laid-back and mellow, surgical procedures, even minor, cause anxiety. They cause your heart rate to go up, blood pressure to go up, and cause you to breathe faster. Some of this can be treated with narcotics, ie fentanyl. However, the risk with all narcotics is respiratory depression, ie, you stop breathing if we give you too much. Then, we have to put a thick plastic mask over your nose and mouth and use positive pressure ventilation (forcibly blowing oxygen into the airway at relatively high pressures) to keep you breathing, while grasping the mask and your jaw with our hands and thrusting your jaw upwards by gripping the edge of your jawbone. So, the benefits of using versed are two-fold in the scenario just described above: 1) Taking anxiety away, means we can get away with using less narcotics to keep you comfortable, at least from a vital signs perspective. Not only will this keep you breathing on your own, or get you breathing on your own faster after general anesthesia (going to sleep), but you will also have less nausea/vomiting/gastrointestinal distress from the opiate (fentanyl); 2) If something goes awry, ie, too much narcotic ends up being given, and you have to be ventilated, do you really want to remember that? For most people, that would be pretty scary, and then cause more anxiety, cause heart rate, blood pressure to shoot up, and then the doctor just ends up chasing his/her tail to keep you vital signs in check.

The side benefit of anterograde amnesia with relation to surgery is fairly wide in scope. Even the process of going into the OR is pretty overwhelming for most people because it represents such a loss of control. For non-oral surgery, you are unclothed except for a gown, in front of lots of strangers, you are moved onto a very narrow bed in the middle of a very cold room, and then all these hands are coming at you from all directions, and monitors are starting to beep - people are putting on blood pressure cuffs, oxygen sensors on your finger, EKG leads on your chest, oxygen mask or nasal cannula for you to breathe, and they might be starting to talk about things related to the case - “I need a Bookwalter retractor, a 15-blade scalpel, PDS suture…” etc. Personally, I think it’s better for the patient to have as little memory of this as possible. Otherwise, you may have dreams/nightmares about it post-operatively, you may have a panic attack during the procedure, etc.

So, the question about why can’t we just do this with fentanyl and opioids - the answer is for most of the reasons listed above. You actually might be able to find some people who might consider just doing it that way, but it would be pretty rare in my experience. The benefits of versed - reducing anxiety, which would then reduce the amount of fentanyl needed, relaxing the patient, making it easier for them to tolerate some of the “intrusiveness” that is an unavoidable part of surgery, and hopefully preventing the patient from remembering some of the “scarier” parts of the surgery or preparation for surgery, are all reasons why we use it.

By the way, versed does NOT cause you to be paralyzed. The comments about that on that messageboard really pissed me off, because there is no f&%$#ing way that can happen with versed. You will be able to speak with versed, move your hands and legs, etc. The best description I’ve heard of it, is that it’s like taking a couple of long-island iced teas - you feel kind of happy and loopy, but you don’t remember a whole lot afterwards. It’s very similar to going on a alcohol binge during a night of partying.

Versed (Midazolam)

Lois — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:06:44 -0800

I had a colonoscopy with Versed and Fentenyl. Fentenyl is a strong pain killer like Morphine so I have no issues with pain. I had complete amnesia of the procedure except for one brief moment that I recall saying "ou - - ch. Apparently the Fentenyl did not completely alleviate the pain. I am no stranger to pain so the pain issue is not what I'm upset about. What I'm upset about is that Versed left me with a strange and creepy feeling afterwards that I just couldn't shake. It kept me awake thinking about it and caused me to become anxious and obsessed.

There seem to be several medical people who have contributed to this site who have never had Versed administered to them. I would suggest to them that they subject themselves to experiencing it first before they put their two cents worth in.

Since Versed has only been around since the 80s, my question is what the heck did they use before then. I had surgery when I was 13, in 1974 and didn't get Versed beforehand. I remember being wheeled into the OR and the anesthesiologist putting a mask on my face and telling me to count backwards from 100 by 3s. I got to 97 and was out. What was wrong with that method? I had no anxiety when I was 13 and I had no anxiety before I had a hysterectomy 2 years ago either. Yet, 2 years ago the anesthesiologist gave me Versed before I even got to the OR and I have no recollection of entering the OR.

I asked a friend of mine who is an OR nurse at the hosp. where I had my surgery how people get from the gurney to the OR table and she said that they move themselves over. Apparently their eyes are opened and they can move and talk and follow directions. The OR staff aren't even aware if a person has had Versed or not. She said they're just kind of out of it when they're wheeled in. I found this all to be very disturbing. She could not understand why. She had Versed herself for invetro fertilization and said that she loved it.

When a woman is pregnant she can't have Versed because it can harm the fetus. So no one says "Oh, we better give her something to relax her or to relieve her anxiety" No one tries to prohibit her from having any memory of pain, etc. When I gave birth, I had an epidural and I remember everything. Which, in my opinion, is a good thing. Even women having a C-section get keep their memories. So why are doctors so concerned with people entering the OR having "something to relax them" now.

I don't think Versed is necessary before going into the OR. I wish someone could explain to me why is so routinely used now. Not having my memories has caused me more anxiety than I ever could have experienced prior to going into an operating room before getting general anesthesia. If I'm going to have general anesthesia, why should I be given Versed first?

I didn't meet my anesthesiologist until about 10 minutes before he gave me the Versed. He didn't ask me if I wanted something to relax me. He didn't ask me if I was nervous, which I wasn't. I was glad that I was going to have the surgery. He just gave it to me as routine protocol.

And if anyone says that the OR is not a place that you want to remember, how do they know what I want to remember if they don't ask me? When a woman is in labor and delivery she is totally exposed and has everyone and their brother examining her most private parts. And nobody thinks that this might be traumatizing to her and think that she would be better off not having any memories of it.

I just don't understand why Versed is used at all unless someone really wants it and is thoroughly informed about its amnesia effect.