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Think like RDM in deciding who will be the final Cylon

Ok, so you're RDM and you've got 5 Cylons left and you have declared they are a special, distinct group of Cylons and they are much older than the 7 shown before, so they can be anybody.

You may have picked your final Cylon long ago, you only picked the other 4 while writing Season 3.

You plan some "big reveal" scenes. You have a few planned for the show. The first one will be to reveal the F5 are special, possibly associated with an Earth Temple. Your next one is to apparently kill Starbuck and have her come back courtesy of some Earth folks.

Two of the biggest reveals you have planned are to show four of the final 5, and then in season 4 to show the last one.

Showing the 4 is going to be dramatic, because you're going to show a lot of people that their assumptions were wrong, by giving them Tigh.

But you are going to leave one Cylon unrevealed. And all the rules of drama demand that this one left over is the big one. The revalation of this Cylon should be an even bigger dramatic event than the revalation of the first 4.

So of your five, who are you going to leave out? Gaeta? Duala? Hardly. How can their revalation be anything but a dramatic letdown compared to what you have done so far. If they are Cylons, reveal them now and leave Tigh a secret. It's not a minor character.

No, it has to be a major character, one whose revalation will be bigger than Tigh, Tyrol, Anders and Foster together.

Now the two biggest characters are Adama and Roslin, however in the final podcast of the season, Moore ruled them out as Cylons. (Or rather, ruled them out as candidates for the 4 Dylan fans. He may have been very careful about his words.)

Starbuck seems to have another destiny, leaving her out though people still consider her a potential chance.

Now there are effectively only 2 characters left, Baltar and Apollo.

  • Apollo: Booooring. At one point that would have been a shocking revalation, in particular because in many viewer's minds that character was the star of TOS, the soul of the show. And Leoben said "Adama is a Cylon," and though he could well be lying, it is an interesting clue. Apollo is one character whose head we have never seen inside.
  • Baltar: Some interesting thoughts there but he has so much else going on, he would have to be a very special Cylon not to make this anticlimactic. (That's why I have developed a side theory that Baltar is possibly not a Cylon, but just possibly an unaware incarnation of the Cylon God.)

One minor character also is an outside shot:

  • Cain. Yeah, she's dead. But she also escaped the attack. And she's coming back in flashbacks for the special fall BSG movie so she's becoming a bigger character. She's a badass. She would provide a nice shock to the audience. (Though after Razor I have to discount this a bit.)

But the winner is...

Big question for any of them.. Sleeper or not. Baltar has to be sleeper. Apollo not necessarily.

Forget the clues and rules from the show for a while because the writers, while they double check them to make sure it all works, realize they write the rules and can bend them and retcon them. The writers think in terms of drama. That's their goal. When choosing the 5th Cylon, think like RDM will have thought.


At this stage, I have no idea. I wouldn't put it past the writers to make it someone uninteresting though, just to throw us off, as their whole plan involves sometimes breaking viewers expectations, and not necessarily exceeding nor letting them down with a really bad or choice either.

I had a funny dream about the end of BSG though - they reached earth, and found the BSG from the old series orbiting Earth! It's all happened before, you see . .

Well, they do seem to do that. Most people were shocked at an old Cylon like Tigh, while I was not. I was in a small minority however, who hopefully read the clues correctly.

However, the general dramatic rule for big surprises in a mystery or suspense story is you're supposed to go "Aha!" when they reveal it, and suddenly see how it all fits. "The Sixth Sense" is one of the great examples of this.

But it isn't always followed. Sometimes Rosebud is just a sled. And in this case, they only picked the 4 Cylons mid-season so there were no "aha" clues specifically for anybody but Tyrol, but there were certainly clues that it could be anybody, even people like Tigh who had fought in the first Cylon War.

I hope they will stick to the dramatic principle. You may not be able to figure it out for sure from the clues they give, there will always be some uncertainty, but when we learn, it should be both dramatic and make sense.

With so many wild theories floating around this site, mine should fit right in!

After reading the speculation about who could be the final cylon, none of the present, eligible characters will deliver the dramatic surprise we expect from Ron Moore. We need to start thinking differently. In the first three years of the show, speculation about who could be a cylon was confined to characters like Gaeta who did not have a confirmed back story or any children. Somebody like Tigh who had known William Adama for decades was ruled out, as was Tyrol because of Cally’s pregnancy. Then, Ron Moore created a new type of cylon so he could surprise us with characters we would have never considered. I believe we’re headed for another switcheroo and need to throw out all our preconceptions of what defines a cylon

The cylon definition everyone trips over was stated by Anders when he told Kara “If you’re a cylon, you’ve been one from the start.” Accordingly, we have confined our speculation to individuals whose history or role allows them to have been a cylon from the beginning of the show. Let’s not make the same mistake again! I believe nothing would be more dramatic than for Ron Moore to throw out this final definition of cylon.

Who, then, is the final cylon? Answer: Nobody. The right question is, who WILL BE the final cylon? Answer: Laura Roslin. After she dies, she will be “downloaded” into a new cylon body that, presently, does not have a consciousness. This allows Ron Moore to coyly state that nobody in the Last Supper photo is the final cylon because Roslin’s consciousness will have a completely different body instead of a younger version of herself. Sound farfetched? Then please explain to me how ANY of the known cylons obtained their personality? Considering that Starbuck died and was resurrected on Earth, why not Roslin who may be the first colonial to die and be buried on Earth?

Roslin's future was foreshadowed in one of the “Resurrection Ship” episodes when Roslin told Adama that she would love to switch her cancer-ridden body with one of those blonde cylon models. Further, her death from cancer would explain the “great pain” foretold in the hybrid’s prophecy, along with her hungering for redemption for bringing the human race to a desolate, lifeless earth. If she marries Bill before she dies, she would also qualify as an “Adama” to make Leoben’s statement true that “Adama is a cylon.” The final clue is in the Last Supper photo. Laura is shown with a lit match in her hand. The flame could well symbolize her rebirth as a cylon, like the phoenix rising from its own ashes.

Whether anyone agrees with me or not, I think it is important not to get fooled again by what we THINK we know about the cylons.

Baltar is most def not a cylon. A very advanced human maybe, but not a cylon.
Remember the projection thing that the cylons do, i think that baltar can do it because he is the Cylon and possibly the human's Jesus.
But it will be interesting to see where earth is, i mean in reference to our time. Is it now (kinda like the OS coz they found earth in the '70's) or the future, or the past. Possibly its time lies somewhere adjacent to our own timeline.
The reason i believe the cylons are looking for earth is that they want to start the NC experiment again, but since ppl from the 13th tribe have never had any contact with the Cylons, the humans of earth my welcome the cylons with open arms.
Also is the beacon had a virus on it, then it is very possible that the virus still exists on earth, and still fatal to the cylons.
The Cylon god is either the old-man hybrid on the Razor flashback basestar or the a god from kobol the one that wished to be elevated above all others. It is also possible that the 13th tribe also worships the singular god, and its another reason why the cylons want to find earth.

The only workable explanation (detailed elsewhere in this blog) is that this in our far future. So no real guess as to what Earth is like. It could even be long dead.

I am pretty confident the Hybrid in Razor was an incarnation of the Cylon god at this point. It's a big red herring if he's not.

Actually, I had another thought - if the last Cylon was in the fleet, wouldn't they have heard the music that the other 4 did, too? Surely they would have - unless the music was only on Galactica (but why? Apparently it's transmitted for some reason to awaken these last 4 or 5) - or the last Cylon is different AGAIN than the other 4 . . . already the plot is getting a bit complicated, with Roslin, Starbuck, and Baltar seemingly having 'special' roles but not seeming to be the 'last' Cylon . . and then we have these 4 special Cylons . . . another 'special' Cylon would seem to complicate things even more.

But who knows, maybe that's the plan anyway. Complicate things beyond what we'd expect . .

But the last Cylon is obviously different -- the one difference we have seen is they didn't gather in the Cylon meeting room on Galactica. However, that's not likely to be the only difference. It could be many things

* They are not on Galactica, but did trigger at the same time, alone on their own ship
* They are not meant to trigger at this point, but later
* They are not a sleeper at all, so they have no reason to trigger
* They are not with the fleet any more (ie. dead character like Cain)

I view the final Cylon as possibly having the number one, special in many ways.

If the last Cylon is different again, then this plot really is getting very complicated. If Ron Moore and co. can pull all these variables together and give a sensible reason for them, I will be extremely impressed. I think most of the anticipation I have for the series right now is if this is what will happen, or if it will end up being some crazy reason that leaves us a bit unsatisfied, and that wasn't planned to leave us unsatisfied . .

Clearly the last Cylon is different, since at the very least they did not join the Dylan fans in the common room. So there is no "if" about it.

It is either Cain or Gaeta. Yes, Cain is dead, but as mentioned, she is a badass. And while Gaeta may seem minor, he has been a trusted officer, always helping out, vital in running operations, and helpful in the resistance on New Caprica. How many times has he been injured by the Cylons?

Brad, you make an excellent point that Leoben mentioned that "Adama is a Cylon" without specifying WHICH Adama, father or son. We already know that Baltar's "Cylon detector" is useless when dealing with these special final five Cylons (otherwise it would have detected Tyrol and Tigh, at the very least) so from that point Lee is still a candidate for the final Cylon. Further, Apollo has had a quasi-messianic streak that has shaped the survival of the human fleet from the very beginning. Consider:

During the miniseries he sided with Pres. Roslin against Adama and wrangled together those human ships with FTL capabilities which became "the fleet" thereafter.

At the end of season one he sides with Pres. Roslin against Adama (again) to protect her presidency and (indirectly) helping her mission to find the Tomb of Athena.

At the beginning of season two he aids Pres. Roslin escape from Galactica, and allowing her and her followers to jump away to Kobol and thereby (directly) furthering her mission to find the Tomb of Athena. Once in the Tomb of Athena her points out the importance of the Lagoon Nebula and its importance as an astronomical marker on the road to Earth.

During the attack on the Resurrection ship he has a strange (and as yet unsatisfactorily unexplained) death wish after ejecting from the Blackbird. His vision of floating on the water while waiting for death to claim him was suggestive of the resurrection process of humanoid Cylons as well as the "vats" in which the baseship Hybrids operate.

At the end of season 2 he urges Adm. Adama to make the fleet jump away once the Cylons arrive on New Caprica thereby saving the remnants of the human fleet once again.

At the beginning of season 3 he disobeys Adm. Adama's orders (for the Nth time) and jumps into the fray to help Galactica in the exodus of the Colonials from New Caprica. Sacrifices Pegasus and in so doing ONCE AGAIN ensures the escape and survival of the Colonial fleet.

At the end of season 3 he appears to be the only one to see Starbuck and hear her message of her journey to Earth.

I don't know if I'm just reading more into it than is there but it does seem, IMHO, that Apollo's character has been central to both the survival of the Colonials and their quest to find Earth. Curious also that his call sign is the name of one of the Lords of Kobol, right?

and here's why i think this:

in "The Son also Rises" Romo says:

"There's no greater ally, no force more powerful, no enemy more resolved than a son who chooses to step from his father's shadow."

so Lee at the end of Season 3 is stepping out of his father's shadow

and according to the hybrid

“ Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of that revelation, bringing true clarity. And amidst confusion, you will find her... Enemies brought together by the apostle, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, once impenetrable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, though still in the shadow yet clawing for the light, hungry for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all, the seven, now six self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching, the agony of the one splintering into many. And then they will join in the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning."

Though right now I am taking this line about being "still in shadow" as just referring to being a sleeper, not aware of who he/she is. But this is an interesting possibility. But how hungry for redemption is he, really. Yes, he shot the Olympic Carrier, and has done a few things here and there, betrayed Dee a bit, but in the grand scale, it's nothing like Baltar.

After watching Razor I am convinced the final cylon is Cain. Besides the fact that they went thru the trouble of bringing that character back and expanding upon her, they also included a very peculiar scene when that oldtime cylon didn't shoot or take youthful-Cain captive when she fled from her sister with the teddy bear, it absolutely revealed to me that she is the last cylon. That is why that cylon didn't shoot or take her. Cylons know which humans are really not human otherwise they would just shoot everyone that doesn't look like a heap of metal.She would be the best choice as the last cylon and a blast to watch her lead the cylons against Adama and the humans...
..Oh the irony

Razor made me mostly eliminate Cain. When her story was untold, there was more mystery to it, particularly about how her ship was the only other one to survive the attack. Adama, whose ship had on it 3, and possibly 4 of the final 5, was obviously planned from the start to survive. We now see Cain's story as just luck, and her determination to order the blind jump.

The final 5 and final one are unlikely to "lead the cylons against Adama." They are not on the same side as the 7 Cylons who waged the war. They are on their own side, and it seems to be much more pro-Adama, in fact they are the reason Adama is there.

If Cylons won't blast her, why did Gina put a hole in her head? Why did metal Cylons shoot at Anders and Tyrol, and even hit them?

Cain wasn't shot because the amistice was signed just as the Cylon found her. The Cylon got the signal that the war was over, and so left her alive.

What about Romo Lampkin, or Calley?

Anybody's possible, but I can't see much to suggest these two. It's somebody who has been in the show from the beginning, we're pretty sure about that. Rules out Lampkin, rules out a lot of people, though you could stretch things a bit and put characters like Zak and Joseph "in" the first show, I guess.

Your logic is very nice.

I'll say a few things:

First, producers LIE. Just because they say it's not Adm. Adama doesn't eliminate him! Ultimately it's the story that's most important, not their truthfulness.

Apollo is a good candidate, but it begs the question... How did he become a cylon if he's Adm. Adama's child? Would require a lot of convoluted story here.

I'm going to suggest that choosing someone not in the 1st season would be silly. Especially if they came from Razor. Too outside the show.

Lampkin was a fascinating character, but again... who cares? Calley? Dull.

Doc Coddle wasn't around until about episode 5 of the 1st season. Being in the original mini-series, IMHO, matters. For a while he was my pet theory, but he's served too many good "other" purposes to need to make him a cylon.

Zarek? Lots of good reasons, but then... still a let-down.

I've been watching the early seasons again for my long drives... just as background noise and chatter. The Gaeta/Dualla idea has some appeal from them being around, forever. However, either of these choices would be more of a let down, WITHOUT further story enhancement. Of the two, I'd say Dualla would be lame. Who cares? Gaeta, though. He's been there through EVERYTHING. Every little step of the way. With Baltar, with Adama, with every major plotline and in-between. He's always there, in the shadow. I think with some minor work of the story, he could become an extremely intriguing final Cylon.

Now on Baltar... He's still the obvious choice, but that would kill his role in the show. Baltar is the archetype human: flawed, self-serving, proud, creative, egotistical, gluttonous. He embodies all of the 7 mortal sins, but yet somehow never loses his humanity. To make him a cylon gives us both a reason for our complete disgust of him and destroys our identification with him as, ultimately, the picture of humanity at its core (for better or worse).

My money is on Gaeta and a re-work of the plotline to reflect his hands behind things and connection to everything.

If they do make it Apollo, Dualla or someone like that, all I'd do is roll my eyes and say, "boring."

I agree most of those are boring. Gaeta has been a popular fan choice for some time, but I also agree his story has to become more complex.

Apollo could be a Cylon in a number of ways without dad (or mom) being one. The Final 5 are clearly very interested in Adama and had one of their number become his best friend right after the war. Doing a baby switch -- or even embryo switch -- hardly seems beyond their ability. And you know, Bamber doesn't really look like Olmos. :-)

As for Baltar's humanity -- it's becoming clearer and clearer, and the producers in fact have overtly said it several times, that the line between human and Cylon is going to become very blurry. I suspect it will vanish altogether, they are all artificial beings from earlier rounds of this cycle.

So the fact that Baltar is "so human" may be why he's the #1 Cylon, not a barrier to it.

Ok remember the episode where the doctor is killing off the sagaorians {spelling}. Remember that woman that had the kid that was killed and had apollo get to the bottom of it all. And then apollo brought the bracelet from the son to her as a sorry or whatever. So now you know the woman I'm talking about, Ok then watch razor and watch when they kill the 10 people on the ship. look at each of the bodies that are dead and you will see her there dead!! You can see it plain as day. So what do you think of that proof???

It was Helo, not Apollo, who brought her the bracelet. And no. That's patently ridiculous and not worth entertaining.

"Baltar is the archetype human: flawed, self-serving, proud, creative, egotistical, gluttonous. He embodies all of the 7 mortal sins, but yet somehow never loses his humanity." That would just make im the perfect cylon then right? Exactly what the cylons are striving to be.

Something about Gaeta sticks with me, the scene where Gaeta came to see Baltar in the lock-up - you could see Baltar whispering something to Gaeta on a security camera - This looked a lot like the Judas kiss - Christ showing the betrayer with a kiss.

You need to watch the webisodes. All is explained.

Is it crazy to think that the 5th Cylon might be ZAK ADAMA? I have absolutely no reason for this except that he's an ADAMA.

Some folks are thinking that after that big scene where Apollo asks, "How would you feel if Zak had come back in that viper?" Sounds a lot like foreshadowing. But I have to say that most people would go "Who?" if it were Zak.

However, others wonder if this might foreshadow Apollo himself being the final Cylon, since it wouldn't matter which son it was. Or maybe Joseph, though I feel either Joseph or Zak would need to get some more development, even as dead characters, to be the answer.

I think this is more about Adama's eventual response to learning that Tigh and Tyrol are Cylons. A good chunk of the episode is devoted to the question of how would characters deal with learning a loved one is a cylon, simply because we just learned 4 of them are. However, since the secret is not out yet, the writers used Starbuck and Zack to ask and answer the questions fans are dying to ask.

But my main point is that if the final Cylon is to be one of these minor or dead characters, we need to see more development and foreshadowing of them first. Zak essentially had not even been talked about for a very long time. Jospeh also was not talked about much until Baltar's trial, but now of course he will get tons of development in the Caprica prequel, and very importantly it is revealed that he was... well, it's possibly a big spoiler so I won't say here for now. But I am not sure Caprica would air before the final one is revealed, so that may not have a bearing.

The cat was out of the bag (literally) in the first 5 minutes of his appearance on the show. That cat had absolutely no validity to the storyline. Romo is a powerful figure. It is so obvious to be too obvious. Everyone is looking for the mega reveal but my website is a theoried explanation as to why it's Romo and how it can't be anyone else.

RDM may not tell the whole truth (like Starbuck coming back), but that's not the same as outright lying. At least not to the fans. He knows we're trying to solve the mystery, and this is a game. Outright lying about who it is, or isn't, would be a cheat, and he wouldn't be forgiven for it. As a person who has been both fan and creator, he understands this relationship, and would be a fool to betray it.

Who have we been told is not a Cylon? Near as I can tell, just two rules apply:

1) RDM says this character was considered as far back as the first season, so it must be someone we know OR KNEW OF in Season One. This eliminates Romo, but allows in characters like Tom Zarek, Zack Adama, President Adar, etc.

2) It has been said directly that Ellen Tigh is not a Cylon.

We can also surmise that Cally and Helo are not Cylons as their children have been confirmed as hybrids (and we know who the cylon parent is).

RDM did say in a podcast that they ruled out Roslin and Adama as Cylons for the end of S3 as it would cheapen the story. Technically this applies only to the revelation of the 4 Dylans, but I don't see how revealing this in S4 would cheapen the story less (though it does at least allow them to continue with the cancer storyline). So while I wouldn't say these characters are ruled out completely, I think it makes it less likely.

For dramatic purposes, the character has to be one the audience can easily recognize - making it Racetrack or priestess who was killed in S2 would fail totally on the dramatic front. However, there aren't many characters that they can use to get a big surprise. Baltar and Starbuck are too obvious, and Apollo offers too many questions (like how did daddy Adama and mommy Adama have a baby Cylon?). Zack Adama offers the same problems as a Apollo, with the addition that we care a whole lot less than if it were Apollo. Also, given the whole Adama family history being established for Caprica, I think they don't want to go screwing around with it by making an Adama a cylon.

I really don't think they can do Baltar as a Cylon, as for dramatic purposes this would completely undermine the character's arc. Becoming a Cylon let's him off the hook for all he's done.

So I think this leaves Roslin (outside shot as I said earlier), Zarek, Gaeta, Cottle, Dualla and Billy. as the only characters that we would recognize immediately and thus would have real dramatic impact. However, of those I think the impact of Zarek and Cottle would be minimal, so I don't guess it will be them. Gaeta, Dualla and Billy all fit the "Dylan Four" profile of secondary characters who put themselves in positions to influence events and people in power. Of those three, I think Dualla is the most likely candidate as 1) we have been told there are plans for her this season, 2) Billy's dead and I don't think the audience much cares about him, and 3) the humanoid cylons have a severe female deficiency. (however, Roslin still remains my primary pick if RDM was misleading about her not being a cylon).

Let me toss out one more possibility, and that has to do with Starbuck. We know Starbuck is an obvious choice to be a Cylon, which is why many of us rule her out. But everything we've seen - from her skills to her "destiny" to her return from the dead- peg her as something special, and her mother, at least, knew this 20 years ago. What if Starbuck isn't a cylon, but a hybrid? WHat if she is the first hybrid? Then either her mother or her father would be the final Cylon and while we met neither one in S1, we certainly knew OF them in that we knew Kara had a mother and father, so they still fit RDM's rules). Revealing the final Cylon as an "unknown" character wouldn't have the dramatic visual, though Kara saying "Dad?" would obviously help that, and the drama would come not from their revelation but from learning that Kara's not all human (aside - we also have seen that the Cylons may have an attraction to other Cylons - witness Anders and Tory, Tyrol and Boomer - if Starbuck were a hybrid, you could add her and Anders and Leoban to the list). Now, of the two I would vote for Daddy being the Cylon - because 1) mom died 2)Kara's dad is a musician -like Dylan, 3)it could be his music that inspired her painting of the mandala, and 4) we all know girls love guys like Daddy - like Leoban and Anders. Now, if such a scenario - far fetched as it is - did turn out to be correct, I know how I'd love to see it play out. The final cylon is revealed in shadow - Kara calls out to him, identifies him as her father, and we cut around to see... Starbuck is Kara's dad. Good or bad, it would have fans pissing themselves. :p

Still trying to get more details on an interview that claims he was more specific, but for now you don't have to say he's lying. He never said (to EW) that the final cylon is not in the picture. He said, "I didn't want you to ferret that out" or similar. He's a good equivocator, and certainly will be around the central mystery of the show.

Actually, I have no doubt he would actually plain out lie, but we don't need that, not yet.

1) I agree that the the humanoid cylons do not seem to be an equal opportunity group. There is a severe shortage of female models. Plus, I think the quote from the First Hybrid "And amidst confusion, you will find her..." suggests that the final cylon model will be a woman. My primary pick is Roslin. She would be a shocker akin to Tigh. She has a long history in the Colonial government and she's had cancer twice. Making her a cylon would really blur the line between human and cylon; the Final Five do seem to age and are susceptible to a variety of human maladies: alcoholism, infuenza, etc. Cancer would just add to the list. Plus, I think the Final Five will serve to reconcile the Seven and the fleet and someone in a position of power like Roslin will be well placed to do so. She basically has Adama eating out of her hand at this point. I have also played with the idea that Kendra Shaw is the final cylon. It would be incredibly dramatic to suddenly see her reappear somewhere in the fleet. And she has a lot of suffering to atone for. Dualla is attractive as a candidate, but somewhat boring. A lot of work will have to be done to make her a dramatic final reveal.

2) What do you mean that Starbuck is Kara's dad? Do you mean the actor who played Starbuck in the original series? I'm not sure that the majority of the fans of the reimagined series would recognize him. I really like the idea that Kara is half cylon. It explains a lot. It would also be exciting if her father turned out to be another older male character in the fleet that we've known all along. Who's to say that she knows who her father is?

When Starbuck returned to Caprica to retrieve the arrow, she visited her old apartment and stumbled upon a recording of her father playing the piano. I only heard the song once, but to me, it sounds remarkably like the ballad that plays in the background during certain scenes on the cylon mothership. Hence, I like your theory of Starbuck being the first hybrid. This might also explain why Starbuck's mom was so abusive to her. Maybe she somehow knew that her daughter was a hybrid, and hated her for it. Take it one step further... what if humans and cylons somehow COLLABORATED to produce the first hybrid? That would be the mother of all conspiracy theories.

The piece played in Starbuck's apartment is Philip Glass , solo piano.

Hmmm.. Starbuck's dad is Philip Glass.

Works for me.

How about the Cylon Mothership? What tune is playing there?

How about the Cylon Mothership? What tune is playing there?

I don't think I recognized it.. Or I would have to listen again....which ep, in particular?

But the piano piece in her apartment was definitely from Phillip Glass' solo piano album.

It plays in the background on several episodes. Sometimes the "Sharon" models dance ballet to it.

If it is, in fact, the same Phillip Glass song (or even another song from the album you referred to), I think it would be more than just a coincidence.

If not, my theory is shot to hell. But I still think it would make sense for Starbuck to be a hybrid. And if Phillip Glass is her father, so much the better.

But would he be her human parent or her cylon parent? (Just kidding).

Yup...That's it...Starbuck's the last skinjob!

It IS strange when I went back to watch that song from SB's apartment is the one playing numerous times during scenes on the cylon base ship.

But there also is another consideration that perhaps the song wasn't created or played BY SB's father but maybe it was a favorite of his. But I do think the dialogue implies that it was SB's father who created or played the song.

This could be a hint after all that maybe Starbuck is the Final Cylon. Is it possible they made it too obvious to become unobvious? Like, we all automatically think they are implying she is a cylon so we dismiss it because it's too heavy-handed.

Her being the first cylon hybrid is not really plausible to me. I mean, the show has flat out stated the first hybrid was the thing from Razor - and it was in a tub and half human hooked up to wires. And why all the buzz about Hera then? In this premise, I can only see it as maybe Starbuck is the first human cylon hybrid created by the Hybrid from Razor (which would be why the regular skin jobs don't know about her). But I still think it's not true.

Good point about the "first" hybrid.

It occurred to me, though, that we may be operating on a false assumption that only the cylons are interested in creating hybrids (Hera, the experiments on Caprica, etc.) What if Starbuck is a hybrid created by HUMANS on Caprica after the first cylon war? Perhaps as some sort of genetically engineered "super soldier?"

Let's say Starbuck's dad was a "skin job," maybe a spy sent on a reconnaissance mission some years before the big attack. He could have been captured and "mated" with Starbuck's mother (who would either have volunteered for such an experiment or had been an unwitting participant). Either way, Starbuck's mom would have ambivalent feelings toward her daughter, which could explain her abusiveness.

As this series has shown time and again, cylons aren't always bad ... and humans aren't always good. It would be pretty strong drama for humans to have some "hybrid creating" blood on their hands.

Another possibility is that Starbuck's cylon father and human mother met and fell in love naturally (like Helio and Athena), and that Starbuck's mom found out after the fact (which would, again, explain her abuse toward her daughter).

I am sure that during 1st BSG season None either of us or even more of the writers of BSG had in mind THE FIVE FINAL CYLON/PRIEST concept that actually unifies Cylon/human history. Just don't forget this as we refer to five persons honoured by both Cylon and Human history. Anyway At 1st season suggesting that either Tigh or Tyrol were Cylons would make many of us turn off their TV sets.....
They must have conceived this idea after the end of Season 2 and only after they reached a general conclusion on how to end the BSG series! My opinion is that Moore will end BSG quest with many surprises one of which would be the revealing of the Final Cylon/Priest: My idea is that the final one is to be of greater importance than the rest revealed....
Ok BSG is a TV series and not a historical event, The writer needs drama and the final Cylon/Priest must be higher in rank than Tigh... otherwise he would reveal Tigh LAST.... So it is Roslin, Adama, Starbuck or Baltar.... Roslin, Baltar and Adama have more than 100 clues pointing them as Cylon/Priest each one actually due to the fact that they are the leading actors of the show. Although Moore has stated that the final five is not present in the Supper photo I don't believe him... on contrary I strongly believe him in telling that this will be the final season for BSG as he opposes to the idea of leaving the show half ended in case SciFi fails to order a 5th season (5 years is already remarkable achievment for a Sci-Fi remake film..)
Of course writers can improvise and provide us as a flashback clues to support their final choice. They could actually provide clues that even.... Romo's cat is the final Cylon-cat.... if they wanted to do so...Don't forget that BSG has a clever scenario. They forwarded season 3 timeline leaving unfilmed one whole year of New Caprica settlement just in favour of the writers to improvise anything that they may think of later... We saw as a flashback Lee's and Starback's marriages, we suddenly saw Tyrol together with Cally being pregnant and many more...
Brad's idea of Joseph Adama being a cylon would spoil the Caprica Series if they ever surface on TV...
I strongly believe that this BSG will end in a completely different way than that of the 1980 series. Simply finding Earth will just be a poor scenario for Moore that introduced SO MANY CHANGES IN THE BSG-2003 series making it a completely NEW Serial rather than a remake of old 1977-1980 BSG that I used to watch as a child. He will definitely go with a BANG most probably with a time loop scenario!
The FIVE FINAL CYLON/PRIEST theory actually presents a deliberate (writer implemented)time discrepancy as the 13 tribe 4000 years ago build a temple honouring five entities that were also not only honoured by the Cylons but were actually recognised as the five final of them (Cylons didn't exist at that time... or maybe they did....!!!!!!!) In the script the whole idea is obfuscated as the rest of the Cylons are prohibited to speak freely about the Final Five (with the exception of De Anna that seeks them) and Baltar who although being the only human aware of the fact that the FINAL FIVE CYLONS & FIVE HUMAN PRIESTS are common entities he fails to bring it to attention to the rest of the fleet when he returns to Galactica. In case you forgot a few hours previously he had made clear to the Cylons that the Cylon-Human converging over the Algae planet a few hours before a star exploding was MORE than simple coincidence..
Just to end this comment I believe that Moore will bring the scenario upside down: Most probably life started at Earth...the real journey was an exodus from Earth to Cobol... and yes Cylons existed right from the start and Galactica with humans together with Cylons are coming back either to future earth to find out their common origin and heritage or to past earth to correct the time glitch (Starbuck's wormhole travel to earth PURSUING A CYLON RAIDER THAT most probably crashed on earth..) that led to Cylon creation right from the first time...

I don't want to see any time travel. I am sick and tired of time travel in SF TV, unless the whole show is about time travel. I think Moore feels the same way so I don't expect to see it.

There is little doubt in my mind that this is set in the far future, but it could be any far future. Could be an advanced Earth but I'm leaning towards a depopulated Earth, perhaps a wasteland like Planet of the Apes, or a planet returned to wild state.

I suppose to get amusing, Moore could have them come to an Earth in wild state and leave it ambiguous as to why. Some fans would want to believe that somehow this is the past. Others would place it in the future. There would be subtle clues for the discerning viewer.

RDM said/implied that the final cylon wasn't in the supper photo. This causes people to either A) assume he's lying or B) overlook a ton of possibilities.

That could well be the case if any of the characters in that photo were replaced by another, identical, character. So the original Starbuck (Cylon Kara) might be the final cylon while the new Starbuck (Human Kara) could be in the photo. Thus, RDM is technically accurate, we have a high drama reveal as Cylon Kara returns to the scene (a major character), and we have an interesting and unexpected plot twist as Human Kara is a true human (from Earth no less), and Cylon Kara is the cylon captured by Earth humans.

The cylon hybrids, however, would still view the Human Kara as the Cylon Kara (they can't tell the difference), who would have led the humans to their end. But, being replaced by Human Kara, she could lead them to their salvation. Yes another dramatic point that would be totally unexpected. "Follow the harbinger of death? Are you kidding me?!?"

It would also explain both the memory loss (and memory retraining from data dumps of the Cylon Kara) of the Human Kara (for everyone's protection no one can know that Cylon Kara has been replaced with a human) and the time period of absence (2 months to replicate a brand new ship and get her to where they know the fleet will be - probably a workable time period with an advanced civilization)

This internal conflict within Human Kara would also possibly lead to her currently displayed erratic behavior. I'm sure play acting like you are a cylon pretending to be a human is not an easy task, especially when the fate of humanity is in the balance, and you know that you are going to have to do some pretty damn dangerous things to make it all work out. That's a crapload of stress!

In addition, what does the first hybrid say regarding Cylon Kara: "She will lead the human race to its end" - Lead? As in 'have followers', as in 'the final four'? - Or lead as in 'traiblazing a path' - like Human Kara is doing now? Regardless of the term, it fits the presented data IF there is both Human and Cylon Karas.

Yes, it's out of the box. But it fits, has the necessary suprise factor, is a major character, meets all dramatic requirements, gives the franchise a way big opening to continue the story in the future, AND gives RDM a way to mislead us all without lying to us.

The Streaming Meanie

So is it Lee? Or is it William? But aren't we missing one other Adama? Someone who's already dead and wouldn't be able to have heard the song? That's right. Zack Adama!

I think Ron Moore knew from day one that his final Cylon surprise would be the emotional linchpin the show deserves. I could pick a hundred clues along the way to solidify my theory, but I will share the only clue that matters–and the only clue that proves it can’t be anyone but a being who has resided on Earth in the last fifty years:

“All Along the Watchtower”.

The musical trigger that reveals the “Four” in season three’s finale is the only intentional giveaway you need to acknowledge to draw an indisputable conclusion: Zak Adama is the final Cylon.

True, Moore said in an interview that Dylan doesn’t exist in the Battlestar universe, but he admitted the “idea” of Dylan existing to create verisimilitude with Earth–the one we all know and live on–does exist. No other character in the show would have any way of knowing this song unless he/she has LIVED ON EARTH recently.

Zak Adama is the only character in this show’s universe that could have been there (and still is there, I believe, drawing both races to him now), unless you make the rotten assumption that the final Cylon lives in the fleet, has been to Earth and knows the way there but just isn’t telling anyone. That is as lame as it gets. I think Moore and crew knew this all along.

Dying leader? Zak is likely president of the U.S or holds some other high office of power on Earth. And this will be the twist: Earth is not the salvation for the wandering humans and Cylons, the wanderers will be the salvation for Earth. Zak is not dying in the way Roslin is dying, ala some disease or injury. He's dying because Earth is dying along with all its inhabitants.

The Hybrid's message to Kara: "You are the harbinger of doom, Kara Thrace..." This only means that the Hybrid knows on some level that Earth is going to end and that by seeking Earth, the entire fleet and the remaining Cylons will die, too. This is a warning NOT to go to Earth.

The “Forgive me…I didn’t know” line from #3? She was the Cylon who ordered the kill on Zak when his ship failed in the days before the war, something Zak intended to have happen. We’ll learn this in the next couple of episodes and see it in flashback. I love this because it ties back to the very first episode of the original series AND fits beautifully with the current story. A Cylon would only say "forgive me" if he/she killed the Cylon once before. Nobody else on the show worth anything has "died" up to this point, and certainly not at the hands of D'Anna.

The Leobin line of “The final Cylon is Adama.” Not a lie. He just doesn’t know it is Zak and probably believes it to be Lee or Bill. Leobin doesn't lie, at least not in a blatent way like would be terrible storytelling.

Starbuck’s visions? Do we really think she’s supernatural? No, Zak just transferred knowledge to her somehow when they were together. Kara is Zak's assurance that the survivors will find Earth before it is destroyed.

And finally, and this is the most important reason why it has to be Zak–there is NO emotional resonance with ANY other character. Will anyone CARE if it is Dualla? Really? Or Tom? Or Gaeta? Cally? Come on, who really would care in their guts and hearts if it is one of these minor characters who aren’t deeply tied to our main characters? Maybe Billy would achieve some emotional charge, but not even a sliver of what we’d get with Zak. Do you love Zak? No. Of course not. But you love the people who loved him. The emotional centers of the show are and always have been Bill Adama, Lee Adama and Starbuck, (ok, and Roslin, but now that she and Bill are in love...)

Only Zak will bring the emotions of the show to the peak it deserves. I think this is right and true from the emotional and logical angles. It all fits and nothing is cheated.

Now if only I can find proof that Rick Springfield once covered Dylan’s tune, the circle of proof would be complete…

Itaintrite after seeing the last episode SE4 EP6 the hybrid prophesy STATES CLEARLY THAT THE MISSING 3 (DeeAnna) WILL REVEAL THE FIVE THAT KNOW WHERE EARTH IS: SO ALL OF THEM SHOULD BE ALIVE!!!! Otherwise the writers should improvise to bring from the dead either Jack Adama or Helen or Joseph...
My vote after last episode goes to Captain ADAMA: He started the quest for EARTH soon after escaping the cylons telling the rest of the crew that he knew where to look for it!!
One more thing on the last supper photo: Can anyone here give us a correllation between BSG characters and DaVinci characters according to the place that each character occupies???? (NO MIRRORING NO REVERSAL PLEASE ..JUST STRAIGHT CORRELLATION)

That 3 can reveal who the 5 are does not guarantee that they are alive. 3 could have met most of the characters who have died, she lived with the fleet until New Caprica, then became an overseer there.

All Cylons would know Joseph Adama's face, I suspect, he helped create them.

They might not know Zak's face. They would know Cain's. These are the main dead characters under consideration.

However, I do agree, it's probably not somebody dead, other than Joseph or Zak.

If Gaeta is a cylon, do we really care? I didn't care when he was about to be put out the airlock, I didn't care when his leg got cut off, why would I care if he's a cylon?

I'm learning towards it being Starbuck. That was an interesting discussion about Starbuck being a clone of a person. If right it could be we could have a human form of a person and then a cylon version of a person... that would be intriguing indeed.

Clones aside, here are a few reasons for my learning towards Starbuck:

1) Supposedly the final five have been to Earth. Starbuck openly claims she has.
2) When Starbuck takes the garbage disposal ship (Demetrius? Ah I forget it's name...) and when her and Anders have sex, watch that scene again. Look at how Anders looks at her back after they are finished and are lounging on the bed. Anders' mouth is open and he is staring. Staring straight at her back. It's only for a second or two before the shot cuts away. But Cylon backs glow red during/after sex right? Was her back glowing red? Is that scene significant or not? Why have him stare incredulously like that. I wonder...

And who thinks that Adama is a cylon just because one of the cylons told him he was? Remember the cylons, besides D'Anna, DON'T know the identities of the five, so him telling Adama his is one means absolutely NOTHING. Similar to how D'Anna told Rosilyn she was a cylon and then laughed at her shocked expression.

The "evil alien/robot clone" plot is a cliche in SF, and I think Moore has declare he won't do it, at least no Cylon will be a copy of a colonial.

That's why he had Tyrol say, "We're Cylons, and we have been from the start" to stop people from insisting that they used to be humans and got replaced. People still insisted that, even with the line!

The glowing red spine thing was something they did in the miniseries and decided not to do again.

I would find Starbuck a boring choice now too, after all the buildup about her destiny, and especially because she came back from the dead. I mean there are clues but that's too strong. It has another explanation.

The final five haven't been to Earth, by the way. They are from Earth. They were made here, in the future.

Gaeta is Starbucks father??? He has been in the shadows for the whole show, and is suffering in pain at the moment (having lost his leg). We have never been told that Starbuck ever knew what her father looked like. We also know the final 5 are pretty old - and that they can be any 'age' outwardly (Tigh / Anders) so it could be that Gaeta met Starbucks mother in the past. The missing person in the 'Last Supper' picture is the place where Judas is on the original picture - and Gaeta has been accused of being a Judas in his time! Also Gaeta is missing from the picture so it fits in with RDM saying that the final cylon isn't in the picture.

Just some random thought there, that tie in with current plot lines.

SPOILER WARNING for those who have not yet seen episode 10!
D'Anna said four of the five are with the fleet. One is not. So where is the one? There are only so many possibilities.
1) D'Anna was lying (unlikely)
2) The person is with the Cylons. This seems unlikely, as D'Anna would probably have "outed" them. However, it may be that the 5th is not activated yet. D'Anna didn't "out" the four directly, but did share a knowing look with them in the hanger bay, so she probably realized they were activated. Perhaps she's willing to leave the last one deactivated and unaware, one final bargaining chip. In this case, the suspects would be Adama, Laura, Baltar, Helo, or (unlikely) an unknown pilot.
3) The fifth is actually hidden among the Cylons - what better way to hide a needle than among other needles? This is a million to 1 shot, though, and I suspect were it true it would piss off many fans as "cheating". As to who it would be, it would have to be Boomer, who is clearly unique among the 8s.
4) The person was left behind on the colonies or New Caprica. I don't know of any characters this would apply to, though, and if they were going to pick a nameless person, it'd be easier to go with one of the pilots aboard the basestar.
5) The person is dead, and ressurected elsewhere - either on this Earth, or on another (you don't really believe that this is the vibrant, living world Starbuck saw, do you?). This opens up a whole range of possibilities.

A couple of points to rememeber -
RDM has said that he had considered making this person a Cylon during the 1st season (latter half, if I recall), so it is highly unlikely that any character introduced later in the series (like Cain, or the chick from Razor) would be the Cylon.

As I have said earlier, the famous "picture" was staged several different ways according to those at the photoshoot, so don't place too much importance on how people are arranged. And we don't know the context of RDM's response to the question about the Cylon being in the picture. If you reread the interview, it could very much have been a jest, and, in fact, he NEVER actually said that the Cylon is not in the picture. He phrased his answer in such a way as to let people draw that conclusion, but never confirmed it.

One train of thought is that there is no #7. The final cylon is not in the fleet(revalations).Sharon is #8, the last of the stronger more single minded first discovered cylons. The final 5 are actualy the not-so-final 4. Fundamentally different, non-downloading, aging(possibly as a result of no downloading capabilities, eventhough one has never been killed) ,human strength and inteligence . I believe the final cylon is a missing member of the first set of 8 models and has not surfaced for whatever reason. I believe it to be Zak because of many reasons. Most of which is the fact that his character has been the least explored major storyline in the show. If the final 4 are different to the point that they are not affected by the virus that wiped out the basestar, or the ill affects of Ragnar all bets are off. The situation surrounding Zak's death are of particular intrest. In the comic book Zak does come back and realizes he is a cylon. Any ideas?

The final cylon is one of the babies. Tyrol's kid or Athena's daughter Hera. It all fits. Why? 1) D'Anna said that the final cylon wasn't with the fleet. Were the kids born yet? 2) The final five have obviously been with humanity for eons, thus they can pass on their consciousness through their offsrping (no "human hybrids" with them: their kids are theirs no matter who the "other" mate is). and 3) We know it has to be shoking and yet be so obvious. There's a lot circling around Hera right now. For a time, she wasn't with the fleet (if I recall). It also should be a woman since that would balance them at half.

Just some thoughts.

Obvious I was wrong with the gaeta line, so /i'm going to be boring and go with Baltar - Maybe RDM is making it so obvious that we won't suspect it. I'm probably wrong again, but that's what makes this show so amazing! It always surprises and keeps you guessing.

If you've been reading the rest of the blog you know Baltar's my number one choice for some time. Indeed the only clue against him is that there are too many clues for him.

D'Anna's declaration that #5 is not with the fleet left it as Baltar, Roslin or as an outside chance, Helo, or a dead character (Joe Adama, Zak Adama or Cain).

Baltar's the big winner, but to work, the big secret has to not be that it's Baltar, but why it's Baltar. This suggests to me that he's a very special Cylon, the original Cylon, possibly a copy of the Cylon god (the main problem with that is that the 5 were priests of that god.)

He's not aware of this, and D'Anna knows this, and presumably has done other checks to make sure he still doesn't know it, but his interaction with Foster demonstrates it well enough. So she's not revealing him.

The Final Cylon is Boomer.

I've had this theory for some time, and I'm pretty certain that there is no other choice left. Let me explain.

1) It must be a character that we know since season 1. This rules out Romo Lampkin and some others.

2) It can't be a deceased human character. How would he have resurrected? The Final Cylon could not resurrect without the Significant seven noticing, unless he/she masquerades as one of the Seven. This rules out Elosha, Billy, Zak and Cain.

3) D'Anna said that only four of the Final Five are with the human fleet. If that is true, it can only be Adama, Roslin, Baltar, Starbuck, Helo, Natalie or Boomer. Besides, how would D'Anna know who is or isn't with the human fleet? She had been boxed for months. But she *does* know that Boomer is not with the fleet, since she met her on the Resurrection Hub and knows that she has joined Cavil's faction.

4) Adama, Roslin, Baltar, Starbuck, Helo and Natalie are all present in the Last Supper picture. Boomer is not - the Number 8 model present is Athena, not Boomer.

5) Of all the humanoid Cylon models, Boomer alone has voted against the rest of her model line. Doesn't that make a little different from the rest of the Significant Seven? Then again, did she really vote against her model line? Maybe not, for if she is the Final Cylon, she is model nr. 7, not 8.

6) The Hybrid told us that the Final Cylon will lead the Cylons against Adama, and Boomer is a prominent leader among the malevolent Cylon faction. Likewise, the hybrid told us that she is "hungry for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering". This fits Boomer pretty well.

7) As far as I can tell, next to nobody has entertained the idea so far. I see that misterd offered it as a choice, but he called it a one in a million shot. nobody has reacted to it. Nobody suspects it. Not here, not on other blogs. I mean, people are talking Lampkin and Zak and Zarek and Hotdog, but nobody seems to suspect Boomer. Surely it would be a surprise. The Final Cylon was hidden among the Cylon fleet just like the four Dylans were hidden among the human fleet.

Why can't the final 5 resurrect? They have been in human bodies for 4,000 years, aging bodies, so surely they can. They can have their own facilities for it. They (or their guardian) programmed the 7 Cylons, they can pretty much do what they want with their facilities too.

For all we know Boomer died when the Hub and the base stars around it exploded.

She said, "There are Five other Cylons, brother." It's not one of the 7. It's a stretch to say she would see Boomer, and figure all this out and still tell Cavil there are 5 others.

But your other clues are interesting. When does the Hybrid say the final cylon leads the cylons against Adama?

Sorry, I can't find a reference for that. I'm pretty sure someone said this, but maybe I'm mistaken. It will be best to ignore that "clue".

About resurrection of the Final Five, I honestly don't think that your argument holds water. Even if the Final Five had their own resurrection technology, distinct from that of the Significant Seven, who maintains that technolgy? Is it just there, spread throughout the galaxy, working for 4000 years, without any maintainance, repair, energy... okay, the same could be said about the temple of five, but those visions and the Eye of Jupiter weren't exactly "technological". Anyway, I think it is clear that no Final Five could resurrect on a Cylon resurrection ship without the Seven noticing.

About boomer's apparent death: she could have left the Hub in a Raider, or however else she came to the Hub in the first place. We haven't seen her die, so in my book she is still very much alive.

Boomer is the only real candidate who is neither with the human fleet, nor on the Last Supper picture (Yeah, RDM's comment on that picture was ambiguous, but I'm pretty sure the Final Cylon is not in there. In wouldn't make sense). One alternative would be Caprica Six. The reasoning here is that D'Anna wouldn't know that Caprica Six is in Galactica's Brig, so she would assume that Six is not with the fleet. And the Six on the picture might be the one inside Baltars head, or whatever. Still, Boomer voting against the other Eights - an unprecedented action in Cylon society, if I understood correctly - is certainly a thing worth pondering.

But there are five other Cylons.

The final 5 have bodies who age, and they were around long before the 7 built their downloading facilities, so they have to have their own. You presume there is only one of each copy. Somebody's pulling strings behind the scenes, and for now I presume it's other copies. Indeed, I think the figures in the white robes in the visions are not just imagined, I think they are projections of real beings elsewhere.

I think you are right, it really could be boomer. It's really a still surprising choise and I don't see many other options,too. If we could solve the resuraction problem of the five, there would be again a lot of more posibilities. But how? A own ship? "And the final Cylon comes with his great powerfull ship all the way to earth to finally destroy humanity!" Dramatic!? No, in fact it's just absurd. Maybe anyone has a better idea. By the way, rememer D'anna on "Rapture"? She said, "You, forgive me, I had no idea!" This also works with the boomer Theory. We all know they are not the best friends!!!

Remember that very little time has passed for D'Anna since Rapture. She saw the vision of the Five, died, then was boxed. Boomer is present when she is unboxed, so why would D'Anna go from being humbled and apologetic toward Boomer in her vision in the temple, just to rudely dismiss her after waking up. It doesn't make sense.

Maybe D'anna is scared! You remember, the final one can control the others. Not very nice for D'anna, because right now she has the control about the rebelling cylons!
Got another idea! What if the final cylons resuract on earth? We know that they have been to Earth or even came from earth. So why not, maybe there is a long forgotten dead character waiting for us on the planet! So Cain, Cally or many others would be again possible. But a still think Boomer is a really surprising idea. Just think about the reactions! "What? Boomer? How the hell...."
Just take a look again: The four we know where amoung the humens, not knowing that they are cylons. So Boomer is the one amoung the cylons, not knowing that she's one of the final five. I think that's even very logical....

Great Theory, But this is TV. It will be Duala. They will create a great backstory that will tie into the new series Capria. They have to have something that will draw the BSG crowd to the new series.

Since D'Anna declares that she wants only four Cylons from the fleet, and she seems to mean it as she gets ready to nuke the fleet and kill hostages to get only those four, the four we know.

Plus Dualla's a boring choice, and has no actual clue of importance pointing to her. Sure, she survived Doctor Robert's poison which killed many, but which others also survived. You can stretch for hidden meaning in her name. That's about it. Compare her to the characters with real clues.

Wild theory i dont believe has been said here yet. The final cylon is the six in baltars head and the one that athena see's going after hera. The final cylon is not in the last supper photo and was not on galactica when d'anna made the demand. and she has shaped the series since the beginning threw baltar.

One Ron Moore is lying, the picture is just there to throw everyone off. Admiral Adama is the 5th and final cylon. Here is my supporting evidence:

1. \"And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.\" In the last few episodes, starting with Adama allowing Starbuck to take a ship out and look for earth he has been throwing aside his professionalism and letting his emotions control his actions. A key statement he made to justify allowing Starbuck to search for earth is \"he wants to believe\" in the people around him and in earth. Starbuck is like a daughter to him (now he wonders if she is a cylon). In this past episode you see his best friend of over 30 years break his heart, you see that he would rather risk death alone in a raptor than to loose Roslin (after he put the fleet at risk). When he finds out that Saul is a cylon he looses it and makes some statements about earth \"it\'s a joke\", but then they find it and again another ray of hope torn down when they land on it. Soon he will loose Roslin to cancer, unless there is a change. The combination of all of these things is terrible suffering for a man wanting to believe but is only offered disappointment. \"What have I done, sent all those people to die and for what?\"

2. Three, states that there are 4 cylons in the fleet at this time I am certain Adama is on the basestar, why does she let him go and no one else. (Respect for her unwitting final cylon) At the battlestar landing dock after D\'eana talks to President Adama, three asks Admiral Adama if he agrees with the plan. Why even ask, it seems to me that if he would have said something else she would have listened to the Admiral vs. the President. D\'anna knows that the final cylon is still in shadow this is why she does not push the issue, maybe she is aware that he still has to come to that awareness but must respect him.

3. There would be no greater way to so unify the fleet and the cylons than to have a revered war hero with a proven track recordeaand earned respect finally discover who he is and leads them all. One of the reasons Kobol was thrown into war and the 13th colony split is becasue of their belief in one god, or leader, king. Admiral Adama fits that so well. 3 of the final five (cylon leaders) are military and have worked with him and under his command for years the only exception would be Tori. I don\'t think she would oppose Adama in any way (if Adama were the final cylon)

4. Now the upcoming Caprica show, Even though Admiral Adama\'s father fought productions of the cylons, I think that I\'ve read that Admiral Adama\'s sister is a cylon, I think that he is the one not his sister. (very iffy I know, but I read it somewhere that his sister was a cylon after she died in an accident she was replaced with a cylon)

5. When Tigh and the Admiral get in a fight the Admiral did very well. We saw that Tori can muster up super human strength, but in this fight it seemed as if Adama had the upper hand. At Ragnor station (season 1) Adama fights a Leoben and wins not bad for a 40+ maybe even early 50\'s human, maybe.

6. He survives a very close range shot, and he did take two close range bullets and recovered very well.

7. At a point (in season 1) a captured Leoben model is talking with Apollo, he asks Apollo how he got such a prestigious call name, Leoben mentions that Apollo in colonial religion is the son of Zeus. This would fit in with my theory that Commander Adama is the final cylon.

8. I think the male hybrid in Razor is an older model of Commander Adama, yes far fetched but I think it is him.

I don't agree on the interpretation of Adama going back to Galactica. If #3 knows Adama is the final Cylon, she would not want him to go back. Plus she again declares there are four once Adama is back on Galactica (with her.) How does she know he is still in shadow, or unaware of his nature? She quickly learns the other 4 are aware of their nature, though we never learn if she learns how little else they know.

On Caprica, Joe Adama helps build the Cylons while Bill is 9 years old. Of course, if Bill is F5 they switched him at the hospital, but long before Joe would work on the Cylons.

However, while he is a possible choice, I am starting to side with those who think it musses things up too much. And of course there is the Last Supper, which you don't accept but it's there.

# 3, Deanna makes the statement that she wants them to be with the fleet for now, she wants them to come to them of their own free will, since they are her superiors what real pressure can she apply. Plus, you are only refuting one point of many and not very well at that. And about the "final supper" picture they keep saying that the final cylon is not there, well could well be that there is going to be a vast personality transformation of any one of those characters that leaves them acting and being totally different from what they were before, hence as presently known or pictured they are not in the photo. Two they keep saying that the spot of Judas is empty, a few theories: one Baltar was the unwitting Judas of the series and two it could be that it is referring to and event that is yet to happen and the person cannot be pinned with a major betrayal yet, or Bill Adama betrayed broke with the rest of the cylons and or Kobol and can be portrayed as a betraying figure. Like I said I can be totally wrong but from going through the entire 1st season again coupled with a few clues in the 4 season makes me think it is him.

I agree that the final cylon has to be a significant revelation.

I will be furious if any of the two following ideas appear:

1: Time Travel
2: Humanity itself is the final Cylon

I think the Boomer theory is too flimsy and misses the point. I think making Baltar the final cylon severely cheapens the artistic integrity of the comment the character makes on humankind in general. Making Adama a cylon would severely cheapen the series. I think Roslin could be a cylon without wrecking the series.

A few theories I like:

A: Carolanne Adama was/is the final cylon, making Lee and Zack half cylons. This would seem like a bit of an artistic cop out, but backstory wise it makes fine enough sense.
B: I liked the suggestion that Roslin isn't a cylon now, but will ressurect as a Cylon after her death.
C: Doc Cottle, this one makes very little if any sense and is so peripheral that it will generate mass outrage among series fans, and for some reason seeing the fans go ballistic on the Sci-Fi boards brings me sadistic joy.

Seriously speaking though, I don't think it will be Roslin as D'anna's little joke would make that a bit problematic. Honestly speaking I think it's going to turn out to be Lee Adama. I'm not sure how they're going to explain all that away, but it seems to justify the big push to thrust Lee into the position of the Presidency so quickly in early part of Season 4. Make Lee president, make Lee final cylon, now species unity is guaranteed! The final season-half will focus on pitching the fleet and cylons against Cavil's cylons. I suspect it will turn out that Earth was destroyed by the Cylons before the second colonial war began. When the colonials touch down there, the geiger counters are ticking, and the heaviest aspects of radioactive fallout die out quite quickly relative to a 4000 year time scale. The mechanical Cylons encountered Earth during the first Cylon War and became enthralled with monotheistic religion, they were reborn as a race, creating the biological models. They eventually turned on the humans of Earth (or vice versa) and destroyed it. Then the final five sent the other seven cylons back to the colonies, wiping their memories of the course of events. Or something like that.

Mex walking bean, your "theory" sucks!!!! You cannot back it up, you have some unfounded final cylon push for Lee. Why was it that when Deanna mentions there are 4 cylons in the fleet and we know who those 4 were. But one was not there, a few major characters were not in the fleet at the time, plus a host of others minor characters. Baltar, Roslin, Commander Adama, Helo are not in the fleet at the time. Out of those characters I provide at least some kind of evidence to support what I think. After I posted my theory I was hoping to get challanged with facts and figures not with fantasies that don't even qualify as a theory. (Theories must have some type of supporting evidence).

Presumably the final cylon is on Earth. Simply because someone must have been responsible for returning Kara to Galactica on a brand new viper, the very same machine which sent the signal triggering the other four, and eventually revealed to them the location of Earth.

You need someone to be pulling the strings, and the final cylon is the most obvious candidate.

Since the fifth has already appeared in the show, I imagine they are a download or copy of someone who has already died. We saw one rogue cylon ship in Razor, the fifth Cylon may have downloaded into their own one before returning to Earth.

I imagine the final cylon is someone like Elosha or Ellen Tigh. If Ellen, she might even be the very first cylon created, Tamara Adama, in disguise. Ellen Tigh would be just the right age and unrecognisable to her brother, if she returned to earth as an adult. This would also tie in with the new Caprica series, and Leoben's comment "Adama is a cylon." And naturally the first Cylon would be able to answer everyone's questions about why the other 11 are completely in the dark about their exact role and purpose. Cavil and Six both said they were specifically programmed not to think about the other five, and who better to have programmed them than the very first human cylon.

It still raises the question about what happened to Earth, and why the refugees and rebel cylons have been led there in the first place. And if the first has programmed them all, its purpose is rather sinister, since it would also have been the mastermind of the genocide.

Tamara and Zoe are the first Cylons created in this cycle, at least the 3rd cycle of repeated wars between humans and AI. They are not the first Cylons created by a longshot.

Remember, the "5" are from "the home of the 13th" which is the modern-speak for Earth. All the 5 are not just visitors to Earth, it is their home planet.

And yes, they are probably involved with the string-puller, but I suspect there are multiple copies of the 5. At least 2 -- the ones on Galactica, and the ones in the white robes that appear in visions to people. I think those are not just recordings. D'Anna seems to interact with them and the one reaches out to touch her, which kills her.

About 22-23 minutes into Season 1, Episode 1 (titled "33") after Dee discovers the Olympic carrier is missing and Tigh says to the bridge crew "We're all tired, but we still have to do our jobs...(not exact wording, but you get the gist)...the camera pans to an unknown crew member by a silver communications box. attention! The next crew member shown (in a uniform) is none other than...Romo Lampkin. (minus the glasses, with different sideburns and fewer wrinkles.)
RDM stated the final cylon was not a major character, nor a guest star, and was also in season one. Romo fits that description.
Also, in many episodes there are strange occurrences involving Romo or his cat. Almost like "clues".
He's also a giant manipulator, and it's been stated that something appears to be "manipulating things".
Romo is not in the Last Supper photo either.
This post has all happened before, and will again, again, again...

Even if it was the actor.

But anyway, Romo's in the fleet, when D'Anna demands the four cylons in the fleet.

Brad made a good point Lampkin is in the fleet when D'anna states that their are 4 cylons in the fleet, again. Roslin, Adama, Baltar, Helo, and many minor characters are in the basestar. Only Adama is released???? Why???? Out of respect, for his position? Zeus the father of Apollo, once they reach the battlestar and finished talking to President Adama, it was so out of place for # 3, to ask him if Commander Adama agreed with the plan. I bet if Commander Adama would have suggested another course of action she would have listened to the commander vs. President Adama. Lampkin theories are so unfounded. So back them up or stop posting them.

IMO, there is one [b]"potentially"[/b] over-riding problem with most of the current line of thought on the final cylon. It's located in the "crack the code" photo from scifi.

Presumably, the final five cylons are "unique". They aren't copies or copyable, and if they were, the other 7 would have known of them beforehand. Notice that the only person that shows up twice in the photo is a "six", two separate copies are represented. Notice that the 4 of 5 revealed are already in the photo. If the 12th cylon is unique, and unable to be copied, there would be no logic in having a second appearance in this photo. Under this line of thought, no one currently in that photo can possibly be the final cylon. That obviously excludes Lee Adama, Bill Adama, Laura Roslin, Kara Thrace, Baltar, and Helo. Those are out.

Also, under this line of thought, and assuming that the open seat at the table is that of the 12th cylon, since there are no copies of the final five, no one who has died can be one of the final five. In other words, anyone who is known to have died can not be the 12th Cylon, because the last seat is not going to be filled with a corpse assumably. That leaves out quite a few people, Admiral Kain, Saul's wife, Cally, and mostly minor players. However, that does not leave out anyone who has died "off-screen" like President Adar.

Thirdly, and an interesting addition to this line of thought, is that presumably the 12th cylon is NOT in the colonial fleet. D'Anna, the "three", has supposedly seen the final 5 and as revealed in the episode Revelations, 4 of the 5 were to be found in the colonial fleet. Meaning the final cylon is somewhere else. That, combined with the concept that the final cylon can't be replicated, and that no one who has been known to have died can be the final cylon....would eliminate pretty much everyone except President Adar, Adama's wife.

I started out by saying "potentially", because here is another line of thought. Remembering that "the final five" have already been to earth, that's why they know the way. And naturally, when the colonial fleet lands on Earth, it's a radioactive wasteland. "This has happened before". Is it possible that the final 5 were sent to destroy Earth? Is it possible that the final 5 are indeed copyable, just not in the same locations at the first 7 cylons? This potential change in direction throws all previous logic out the proverbial window. Even the dead, such as Admiral Kain or Cally could be the 5th Cylon. Note however, that only one assumed human, Kara Thrace, has also been to Earth. And also note that Kara is the only person to have "died" and reappeared under more than dubious circumstances.

And lastly, one other smaller line of thought. When the D'Anna, the "three", looks upon the final "five" she apologizes. Why apologize? Is it possible that the 12th cylon is presumed to be dead, or is in fact dead? Or is it possible that the 3's had a negative run-in with the 12's at one time? Who could that be? Maybe she's just bothered that she had that negative encounter with Anders on Caprica, or maybe not.

I don't think they are unique. I think we've seen other copies, in 5 white robes. Those are not just recordings, they interacted with D'Anna.

Foster is not in the last supper photo. But we already know the people in the photo are ruled out. And even if you think there is no more than one, that doesn't rule out the dead. These guys are 4,000 years old, they don't just die and never come back.

It's not Adar, we've been told it's not some barely seen or new character.

The five have not "been to" Earth, they are from Earth. They may have played a role in the most recent war that nuked it, but were not sent there to do it.

I don't think it is a big mystery who the final cylon is (after season 3).
Let's remember some of crucial episodes of Entire series.

Firstly Season 3 episode 6 (Torn)
Number 6 Gina said that "We don't imgaine. We project"
Just like Baltar "project" himself with Gina in various position... :)

That's the first, Maybe just a coincidance.
So we need more evidence, right?

So let's take a look at Season 3 episode 7 (A Measure of Salvation)
There was a virus issue.
A virus that Cylons could get sick and die...

Significant 7 models thought that,
Doctor Baltar has something to do with the virus.
Gaius had been considered that,
he deliberately connected with Galactica somehow
and release the virus via the "marker" that had been found.
We all knew that, there was clearly a misunderstanding, but Cylons didn't.
Because of that,
Dianna tortured Baltar with some kind of electric chair or something...

Finally let's remember season 3 episode 12 (Rapture).
Such a milestone for BSG I should say.

Dianna who thinks she was the Chosen One,
saw the faces of the Final 5 Cylons in the Temple of 5.
And suprisingly she said to one of the them;
"Forgive me, I had no idea"

That was an apology clearly.
But why Dianna apologize someone?
Didn't she torture Doctor Baltar with electric chair a while ago
for some reason which Doctor Baltar had nothing to do with?
I dare to say It's a REALLY GOOD reason to apologize.
The clues are getting more and more.
But there can be someone who is still not convincing.

So let's continue.
Again in the episode (Rapture),
after Dianna saw Five Cylon's faces and apologized one of them,
she touched that Cylon's hand and fell on the floor.
Baltar who stood nearby, hold her immediately and asked her,
the question which mystified his mind for some time.

Gaius : What is it ? Tell me. Am I one of You ?
Dianna : You were right.
And goes on.
((I couldn't remember the rest of conversation))
Dianna said "you were right".
I think nobody can deny that It was a BIG clue for us.
((I mean what else she had to say for God's sake.))

Finally if there are still anyone who ignores all this,
take a look at season 4 episode 10.
Dianna said she wants 4 of the Final Five.
Because the Fifth is not in the fleet,
which is when exactly Baltar was in the Basestar.

Even the most sceptical ones among us CAN'T claim these are all coincidance.
We just have to sum all the things up.
The answer is obvious.


I think there are much more intriguing 2 question right now.
If 12 Cylons for 12 Colonies... So Is there 13th Cylon for the 13th Colony Earth?
If so, there is 1 more quota for the other candidates about being a Cylon.

And secondly,
Is there a connection between Final 5 and "All of it happen before and will happen again" prophecy ?
I mean, Do those 5 Cylons,
repeatedly reinvent Significant 7,
and led them destroy the colonies where human live ??
and then another Earth discovery convoy starts their journey again and again ??

I think these are the real unknown points at the moment.

Yes, I have a whole other article detailing this and many other clues that point to Baltar.

Alas, he is in the Last Supper photo, and thus ruled out. At the very outside, there is a chance that the Baltar in the photo is the virtual Baltar, but he is dressed as real Baltar.

If you take the Six in the photo to be real Caprica Six (also a stretch) then virtual being (who appears as Baltar to Cap6 and may also appear as Baltar to D'Anna) also meets many of the clues from Rapture, in that D'Anna thinks she saw Baltar but actually saw Virtual Being.

Ok in another forum I apperantly run into some guy that says he worked on BSG, Mike Taylor. Me and him and a few other have been going back and forth about the final cylon. Now I got to "research" what you say about those episodes The Answer, before I take your Baltar theory, but it does make sence to me since Baltar would fit into the "Judas" role, he was an unwitting accomplice to the destruction of the colonies. I always doubted Baltar was the final cylon because if he was a cylon and so smart why would he not be able to do all of the programing on his own. Also he could fit the description of clawing to the light and seeking redemption. But Dianna does not really respect him as a final five while he is on the basestar, she takes advice from Tory and she is intricately involved but I think that baltar is only listened to and at that it seems more like "tolerated" becasue him and Dianna had a relationship and because what he had to say was reasonable.

As far as the picture goes I don't give it much credence since it could be said that those currently pictured in their current mental state, could undertake a huge transformation which in all essence makes them totally different than the ones we know and in all essence are not in the picture.

Mike Taylor says Lampkin is the final cylon and I quote:
"Romo Lampkin is suppose to be the equivalent of Count Iblis from the origional series. If you remember, Count Iblis was cast away from the Ship of lights. Well in the new Battlestar Galactica he doesn't have magical powers, he is the final cylon, and the oldest one. If you remember the cylon numbers actually have no meaning. How Romo gets off the Galactica undetected will also be explained in episode 16 as well. Hope I didn't spoil too much for you." Supposedly Mike worked on the project, I'm still not convinced, but if he worked very closely on the project I asked for video, lol.

Problem is I asked Ron Moore himself via an intermediary about his statement that the final Cylon is not in the last supper photo and he confirmed it.


No, it's not Lampkin. He's in the fleet when D'Anna says there are four, and more to the point, he's a boring choice. Read all the quotes from insiders about how people will react to the final Cylon, and it's clearly somebody who fits and is not minor like Lampkin.

Thanks for your reply Csrsteel.
If you watch the episodes I mentioned, you will see what I'm talking about ;)

And about Romo...
I think he really is a mysterious guy. So smart. So manipulative. So farseeing.
He has all the characteristics to be an evil guy.

So if it is decided by the writers that there will be 13th Cylon model regarding to Earth,
which should not be known by anybody including Cylons
I think Romo would be perfect choice for it.
((Considering Gaius is 12th... or may be Romo is 12th and Gaius is 13th... Both of them possible))

Ok thats it, you guys with a direct line to Moore can suck my viper, I think you are trying to throw me off. Two ppl that post in two different forums that say they have direct contact with Moore, whatever.

But I did ask a reporter who had interviewed Moore and had him tell her that it was nobody in the photo to check with him again, to make sure he wasn't playing with words, as he does. She checked with him for me and he authorized a quote that was more explicit. I have a blog post about it in the battlestar blog.

Congratz Brad !!

You are right. You solved the problem ;)

The only obvious obstacle for Baltar's candidacy about being a Cylon is gone to me. :)

As you said,

"Baltar in the last supper picture" must be Head Baltar ((Just like Head 6 in the middle of that picture))

Ron Moore's statement "Final Cylon is not there" about the picture, is actually true then.

True but just in a tricky way,

as we expect from a genius guy like Ron Moore. :)

So, as long as "The Real Baltar" is not in the picture,

for the reasons I have told my previous message one by one,

Doctor Baltar is still the most probable candidate for being a Cylon.

That simple.

But it is a stretch, because the Baltar in the photo is dressed as prophet Baltar, and we have not seen the virtual Baltar ever appear like that. The red-dress Six is more interesting. That's how virtual Six appears, but it's also a copy of the look of Caprica Six when she was on Caprica with Baltar.






They are all cylons.

Humans created them on earth, they rebelled and destroyed earth causing the exodus to other star systems.

That Boomer theory is fascinating.

Not only is it in the open credits..."There are many copies" and 2 Sharons shown.. but we've got a 2nd different coloured hair number 6 too to further confuse us.. but also to point the way.

yup.. I think we have a number 7!


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