Like many, I am interested in reputation systems, and eBay has built the largest public reputation system. Many have noted how feedback on eBay is overwhelmingly positive — a 97% positive rating would be a reason to be wary of a seller.
It’s also noted that people do this because they are scared of revenge feedback — I give you a negative, you do it back to me. One would think that since the buyer’s only real duty is to send the money that the seller should provide positive feedback immediately upon receipt of that money, but they don’t.
Some fixes have been proposed, including:
- letting you see the count of total auctions the party has been buyer or seller in, so you can see how many resulted in no feedback at all. Right now only eBay knows how large that number is.
- double-blind feedback. That is to say that feedback is not revealed until both parties have entered it, or if only one party enters it, after the feedback period has expired.
- Marking revenge feedback, ie. putting a mark next to negatives that were a response to an outgoing negative.
Thus you could have very low fear of revenge feedback and there would be no argument about who should go first.
This idea’s fairly obvious, so like many other obvious ideas about eBay one wonders if eBay doesn’t feel some benefit to themselves from not doing it, though it’s hard to see. I’m also curious as to why eBay doesn’t offer a “going, going, gone” auction where the auction closes only after 5 minutes with no bidding. That seems to be in the interests of sellers (and eBay which gets a cut of the selling price) and it’s certainly not something they are unaware of.
The only proposition I’ve heard is that eBay has decided that there is a positive value to itself (and possibly sellers) from bid-sniping, the process of bidding preemptively in the last minute of an auction to not give other live bidders (who didn’t use the automatic rebidder) a chance to come in with more. The only way this could be good woudl be if Snipers deliberately overbid in order to trump anything. Any research or thoughts on this? It may also be the case that the sniped auctions are more “fun,” or more of a contest. And finally having fixed closing times does facilitate participating in multiple auctions for the same thing.
I have also posted updated eBay thoughts and an even simpler system which eliminates revenge and in fact now have an eBay tag for all eBay related posts, including thoughts on eBay’s solution to all this.
There are photo sites where you can rate people's appearance on a scale of 1-10. The average average should tend to 5.5 with enough data (or 5.0 if a scale of 0-10 is used).
However, it is rare that any photo, regardless of appearance, gets rated less than 5.
Revenge is unlikely since voting is anonymous, and there is no requirement for voters to post their own photos.
EBay's rating system is intended to have an economic, rather than aesthetic basis. However rating inflation is common to both systems. Altruism? Guilt at giving bad ratings?
possibly only people who
possibly only people who feel that they are above-average looking will post pictures of themselves. So maybe it is extremely accurate!
[8^)
Why doesn't......
First, if there is any compensation or gifts given, anytype of financial compensation, I here by lay claim as my original idea. After my disclaimer, I would like to submit an idea I feel would satisfy both the "Ebay" buyer and seller and possibly bring some of your sellers, such as myself, back and willing to sell. I may not be your Biggest Seller or the one millionth item sold, seller, I do tend to find items which are purchased and my feedback rating is a 100%. I felt Ebay was reputable and would stand behind their sellers and buyers by a workable contract and rules and rating system.
My suggestion would reference the "free shipping" option as the only option. Due to the fact that our ecomomy is in a difficult state, free shipping ins't really affordable for the seller anymore.
Although the buyer did receive the best part of the deal, some of your buyers took a hit, such as myself, for incorrect shipping costs. One can't, as a reputable buyer ask for the difference after shipping and the sale. Not only would that be un-ethical as a seller, the chance would be low of receiving the difference. Ebay doesn't figure the higher cost of shipping materials, also. Encouraging "free shipping" is driving the home based business, small but I am disabled and making just enough to help with the extras.
My Idea is to offer split shipping costs as an option. Also have a disclaimer for the seller that shipping costs may be higher or lower. When lower, money could be refunded through paypal very easy. If over, the money could be added just as quickly or package will be sent when accurate funds for shipping are emailed to you. I know that I have used the estimator and the accuracy is very low. I have had to quit selling because buyers always will go for the free shipping but "Ebay" seem to be driving the smaller home based persons out of the door.
Anyway, Thank you for your time, June OBrien
360 721-6478 360 699-5570
You say buyer's ONLY
You say buyer's ONLY obligation is to send money, this is incorrect if a buyer leaves me negative feedback without contacting me first to resolve the issue I leave him it in return let me explian this a little. If a buyer buys a model from me, the model gets broken in the post so the buyer leaves me negatiuve feedback. Had the buyer contacted me first I would have mot likely offered him a refund if he returns the item etc. If a buyer chooses not to do this it warrants negative feedback... I'm assuming you don't sell anything on ebay then?
Item broken by post - only seller's mistake!
If a package sent by seller has been broken by post, have you EVER thought, that it could be your, (Seller's) mistake, not to wrap and pack item correctly in order to SAVE on your shipping/handling fee??
Offer a refund? No sellers offer full refund with shipping cost, LOST TIME and moral compensation.... think about it. I would live negative feedback to seller who doesn't gives full refund and appology.
Im dealing with a seller now
Im dealing with a seller now on a damaged item, they are giving me a new item and I dont have to return the broken one. Not everyone on ebay is evil minded.
Did you purchase insurance
Did you purchase the offered insurance? Most buers ignore this in order to save a few bucks but if the item is lost or broken they feel it is the sellers responsibility.
Anybody who purchases insurance for items under $100
As a former eBay LIVE CHAT representative, I want readers of this column to know something. Insurance is a ploy that SOME sellers use to gain extra profit. Knowing full well that the post office and other couriers rarely have mishaps, these unscrupulous sellers are pocketing the funds, and simply sending out replacements when a claim comes their way through the buyer. In most cases a seller who packages properly can make a thousand sales and have only one or two breakages - so do the math.... That's two or three thousand dollars for AT MOST a hundred or two hundred dollars in replacement costs.
I, personally, would be suspicious of anyone pushing insurance as a mandatory thing unless they're shipping proof of the insurance with the package. And then, at that point, the realistic options of possible breakage then still exist, and you're not likely to ever need to file a claim IF the seller packages properly in the first place.
THEREFORE - I'd like to mirror Brad's comment that return shipping should ALWAYS be the responsibility of the seller in the case of breakage BUT I'D ALSO LIKE TO ADD that this should also be the case when an item is "not as described", because currently, PayPal takes a pansy stance on this issue, and they require the buyer to pay the return shipping. Anybody in their right mind would agree that if the item isn't as described, that this is fraud - and we all know how the courts deal with fraud. It's just too bad that this isn't the case on eBay.
Amen?
Unfortunately, eBay doesn't
Unfortunately, eBay doesn't necessarily tell everything to Live Chat representatives (which is why there's a plethora of free websites maintained by "civilians" like the Hobbit eBay Help page), and there are some major holes here. The message boards are filled with people who found that Live Chat was not given enough information to answer all their issues. And I blame eBay for that first and foremost.
Speaking of eBay, the "ploy" you described is similar to the additional insurance PayPal attempts to add onto all sorts of services - making money when they know there are few opportunities for the item not to arrive safely. Likewise, it's the same reason why Best Buy and other companies push those extended warranties.
So first of all. Your statement completely omits the possibility of third-party insurers like UPIC, which many more people also use in tandem with Endicia, the PC postage company. Very few professional sellers and mail order outfits use USPS insurance, because UPIC is much easier - you just list customer info in monthly spreadsheets submitted to the company, and pay once a month for your costs. You can also register a package online and buy the insurance a la carte - which means you don't have to wait in line at the post office.
UPIC, like car or other insurance most people have, has a sliding scale depending on how many packages you ship and to where. Unlike USPS insurance, there will be no "proof" that is stamped on the package that insurance was used. I use UPIC only, and when I charged for insurance as an itemized cost, I had to explain that it does not involve a big green stamp on their package.
You're also forgetting that the responsibility for safety still lies with the seller. Insurance is not just for the buyer, it's for the seller too. I would only be suspicious of those sellers who claim in harsh language that if you don't pay for insurance, you're SOL. That - to me - implies that this person is more likely to ship you an item and then blame you if it arrives damaged. They don't have the force of the law behind them, but I think it's nuts to do business with such people anyways. Whether you pay for insurance or not, the seller and carrier (like the post office) are both still responsible - not for you having a bad day, but for making sure the package arrives safely and in a timely manner, in accordance with FTC rules. Good business means that you want to protect your relationship with your customer, and that means being proactive and positive.
The seller has a choice between integrating insurance costs into the overall postage and handling, or asking for a separate payment. Many people assume, as you stated, that insurance is just a "ploy", even when shipping fragile or damaged items, so many antiques, fragile and professional sellers ask for one sum that covers all costs - postage, handling and insurance together.
Anyone who purchases
Purchasing insurance is the buyers responsibility. What company provides the insure should be of no concern, as long as the transaction is insured. So, if the insurance is with UPS, USPS, State Farm or if the seller self insures matters little to the buyer, as long as the insurance is provided. In either case, someone makes the profit on the insurance, whether UPS, USPS, etc. So what you are saying is that you question which company has the right to make the profit on the insurance. My postion is, if you are the buyer, as long as you are insured why are you questioning who has the right to make the profit on such transactions? Frankly, it is none of the buyers or eBay business. eBays job is only to have a safe marketplace not to question every transaction. The buyer should only care if the insurance claim is paid. So, when eBay says its sellers are being judged on the amount of profit they make and and how they make it far exceeds what any auction company should be concerned about. eBay should really want its seller to make the most amount of profit possible because that will insure them coming back as an ebay seller and sellers pay the fees. Buyers to not pay any eBay fees. eBay cash paying customers are the sellers, so let the sellers make a profit and they will keep coming back to eBay as sellers and also as buyers. Cut off their profits needlessly and they will not continue to sell on eBay. If they stop selling on eBay the stock holders suffer and the value of the eBay stock goes down. eBays primary responsibility is not to buyers....its to the stockholders and that gets lost a lot at eBay.
Anybody who purchases insurance for items over $100
I posted this separately because it touches base on a separate, but yet very important issue.
eBay has another company that it uses to handle the risks of passing large amounts of money forward to a seller. The company is www.Escrow.com
You can figure out how Escrow.com works by logging in to the page, but the main gist of it is that you send your payment to escrow.com and once they receive it, they forward an email to the seller to let them know that your payment is secured. The seller then sends the item to you, and you let escrow.com know when the shipment arrives, and confirm or deny that it is in the condition you expected it to be in.
If you confirm that everything is A-okay, then escrow forwards your payment to the seller. BUT - if there's something wrong with the delivery, you tell escrow.com about the problem, and they make sure YOU GET YOUR MONEY RETURNED TO YOU AND THE SELLER CAN'T PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING.
Now THAT is insurance!
Not always sellers fault!!
I always put protective items around the purchased item when shipped and I have had things still broken, those postal people are NOT easy on those packages, even when marked FRAGILE. Why should the seller have to pay to replace something that was perfectly fine when leaving their home/business? Buyers should ALWAYS purchase shipping insurance not skimp to save a few bucks.
FEEDBACK
Are you Scared your SCAM or CON will be found out? Proper edicate states once the BUYER Pays on time or Early, You leave the correct feedback.
Scammers, and Cons will not leave feedback until you do, or not at all.
That is why I will not bid on items from people like you.
I am leaving feedback on the
I am leaving feedback on the TRANSACTION of the sale, not (IMHO) whether someone paid fast. There are many people who can not READ the terms of the action, get mad and strike the seller - My policy is simple and so stated, "Feedback will be left after you rate your buying experiance with us, please keep in mind we will leave the same."
Lie to yourself, not us...
What YOU are doing is being selfish, but simply being up front about it. Basically you are saying stating that you will leave negative feedback if you receive it regardless of its appropriateness.
Frankly I can't really see how you would ever get a buyer...
Are you some kind of
Are you some kind of idiot?
What about people who leave immediate negatives because they don't like it arriving in 4 days when told shipping would be 5, incorrectly interpret an emails 'mood', or mistakenly calculate a 50 cent postage discrepancy all due to their 'selfish' self interest of trying to get an item at well below what anyone could buy it for wholesale at times?
Knee-jerk reaction negatives are actually part of the buying behaviour that needs to be rated as to whether it was warranted correctly or not.
Actually, I think YOU're the idiot
Most people leave honest feedback, and there isn't much of a knee-jerk reaction if you did your job as a seller. Holding your feedback 'for ransom' isn't cool, and it isn't good business.
I can't understand why you'd support this type of a system unless you're one of those rip-off artists holding people's feedback for ransom and then leaving them negative feedback after you shipped them a 50Meg ripped MPEG of LotR when the item description was "NIB Lord of the Rings Trology DVD Collector's Set"
Go insult people who aren't 50 times smarter than you, or at least post something half-way intelligent, instead of pointing out to the entire world how stupid you are. If your parents read that post, it would probably make them cry.
Ebay Feedback
The situation with feedback on ebay is not one that can be defined in terms of black or white. There are a lot of gray areas and it all has to do with the integrity or proficiency of either the buyer or seller or both.
I tend to agree that the sale is never complete until both the buyer and seller are satisfied. I have a 100% positive feedback rating (almost 2000 positive feedbacks) and got most of my positives prior to deciding to only leave feedback once I KNEW THE BUYER WAS SATISFIED. What do I mean by this? It means that ask my buyers to let me know how things went either by posting feedback OR by emailing me. In either case, I do leave feedback. I actually started this policy because it was taking me entire days to leave feedback and one third of my buyer's were not reciprocating. If you research unfavorable feedback though, you'll see that a lot of it is left from buyers that did not take the time to read through the auction description and that many never even contacted the seller.
The one unfavorable feedback that I did get (a neutral) was because the seller felt that the shipping was too slow. The fact of the matter was that I shipped out his item the next day and mailed it directly from the post office so the date of mailing was evident on the envelope. It also only took 14 days for his item to arrive from the East Coast of Canada to California, which is within the normal shipping time (not that I have any control over that anyway). When he left his feedback, he had all kinds of red flags pop up from eBay to consider postal delays, to contact the seller, etc. etc., but he CHOSE to ignore them and left his unfounded neutral anyway.
I know I'm a good seller and for me, it's not about pulling something over on the buyer, it's about encouraging my buyers to be responsible with their feedback and to contact the seller if they are not satisfied. All of my items are sent out with a nice professionally written thank you note asking my buyers to let me know if things were not as they expected and telling them that I am committed to making the transaction a success. I will not vouch for other sellers but my reputation is solid and I make every effort to resolve any issues to the buyer's satisfaction. Unfortunately, some buyers are not responsible. They fail to read the auction details carefully; they fail to take note of emails the buyer sends (like shipping notifications); they fail to take note of the postmarks proving when items are sent and they fail to recognize that postage should also include the cost of packaging materials.
Now that's not to say that there are not some bad sellers out there. There are enough bad sellers that do not accurately describe their items, that give poor communication, that package terribly, charge too much for packaging and take too long to ship. They most definitely deserve their negative feedbacks but likewise, good sellers don't deserve negative feedback from buyer's that are not responsible with their purchases and don't take the time to email the buyer to resolve any issues prior to leaving bad feedback. Also, I would argue that even though the buyer's payment has passed through the seller's Paypal account, there's no guarantee that it's going to stay in the seller's hands. There are a lot of buyers who are scammers too.
Whether or not the seller leaves feedback first should not be the deciding factor whether or not to buy from them. I buy just as much as I sell on eBay and lots of terrific sellers follow the practice of only leaving feedback once positive feedback is received. A lot of them also use programs to do this freeing up the time they need to serve their customers better. What I would suggest if you're worried about "false positive feedback" is sticking to buying from sellers that specialize in what they do. Sellers that specialize are more interested in building repeat business and are more likely to be strongly customer oriented. Looking for positive feedback from repeat buyers too is also a good way to gauge how good a seller is because buyers do tend to stick with sellers they've had a good track record with.
Just had a seller leave me
Just had a seller leave me negative feedback. I was selling step by step photo instructions of how to fix a particular type of laptop. The instructions were on my website as stated in the auction listing. The guy sent a payment of 2.99 which is 100% refundable and guaranteed. I received 4 threatening emails from this seller stating that he never received the item. I replied 4 times leaving all my contact information and the instructions. My email read receipts stated that the emails were received by the recipient but not read. I noticed one day he left me a negative feedback. It was An overall bad experience with the buyer. Why does he not deserve negative feedback in return? I clearly stated in the auction listing to disable spam filters and to check junk mail folders. Had he read the item listing he would have known where the instructions were. He would have known to check his junk mail folder, etc etc. With this new system I have decided to leave ebay. I'm not going to be held hostage just becuase someone sends payment. My feedback was 100% positive with over 1000 feedback score. I'm now only selling on kijiji and craigslist.
received negative feedback from a non payer
just received a negative feedback from a customer who did not even pay for the item purchased,, after waiting for payment for 10 days, i did a unpaid item strike, within 10 minutes the buyer responded to the dispute and then left negative feedback in response,, i then was unable to leave negative feedback for a non payer, but wow,,, was able to get listing fee back,, what a sham
Buyer protection - a way to keep 100% for buyers!!!
Hi all,
I was sick and tired of sellers, who tried to manipulate my FB and make me feel scared of their retaliatory FB. I've found out the way to keep 100% FB without spending any nerves!
I simply posted the following text on my "about me" page and I encourage every buyer to do the same:
Dear sellers,
I will kindly leave feedback for you after I have received your feedback.
A buyer’s duty is to pay for the goods (fast/slow/no payment?), inform the seller if the transaction was satisfactory - after receiving the item/s; if the transaction was not satisfactory for any reason - to try to resolve problems together - before leaving feedback. I want to assure my sellers that I will fulfil my duty as I have always done my homework.
The Sellers duty is to complete a satisfactory transaction, (or otherwise try to resolve problems together) and to provide a true and honest description of the item. As a buyer fulfils their duty first – the seller should therefore leave feedback first.
I respect your choice on the feedback you do / don't leave for me.
I strongly encourage sellers to build a healthier Ebay community and not put your buyers under pressure by demanding to receive feedback first.
Sincerely
xxx
Well, I must admit, dear buyers, that after that action I started to fell free and relaxed... How free can a person feel after realising that he/she doesn't have to kiss anybody's ass to receive positive feedback?
If seller is trying to manipulate you - you can manipulate back! No Ebay will protect buyers, so buyers must start protecting themselves.
Feedback
As aseller I heave recieved neg feedback for not accepting Paypal, which was just an excuse for not paying. I recieved a neg feedback from a woman whos father won an auction of old pocket watches which two were gold. The watches Were listed "FOR PARTS" The woman said they were junk and didnt work and she was not going to let her dad pay for them. The rest of my total of 4 out of 1780 negative feedbacks were from people who just changed there mind and didnt want to pay or morons who couldnt read. I signed up for WAGGLEPOP today where the fees are cheap,the feedback system is fair and there are a minimum of morons. If I can no longer leave a neg feedback where it is deserved I can no longer sell on ebay. I have joined the boycott and like thousands of other ebayers am moving elsewhere, after 10 years.
you say buyers only
your incorrect-I know your type. You hold peoples well earned feedbacks hostage to keep them from letting what shitty a packing job you do. Your nothing but a cocksucker.People like you should be banned from ebay.
you say buyers only
Wow, first of all, nice language.
Secondly, I see a lot of buyers on here arguing that once they paid, they are done with an eBay transaction. So if you fail to follow any policies AFTER you pay before the transaction is complete, then that is OK? Isn't demanding positive feedback for simply paying (which should be a given task) the same as gaining the upper hand in holding that threat to use as you say retaliatory feedback is? Obviously if you were left positive feedback already, you'd hold all the cards and then could make demands that are incorrect and unfair couldn't you?
There is a policy that you agree to when you sign up to use PayPal and eBay. Buyers fail to read parts that say if an item is to be returned, you as the buyer are responsible for the postage to return it.
For the idiots that argue if insurance isn't purchased that a seller should be responsible for damaged items in the mail - truly retards you are...I had a BOX of mail ran over by a mail truck and sent back to me with tire marks all over it. I chose to replace all broken CDs that were in it due to the large volume of negative feedbacks I felt I would get because once ONE PERSON left that negative feedback, the rest would snowball and all the ones affected though NONE purchased insurance, would somehnow feel vindicated in gang-raping my feedback with negatives.
Do you want to hear what a REAL BITCH about that is? I still got a few negatives because their items got there 'late' because I got BACK the packages all mangled up and had to go through and find out who's was damaged and everything - even though I still sent them another CD and didn't charge them, they left negative feedbacks. So you want to sit there and tell me they didn't deserve negatives for that and they were great because they freaking PAID??? I don't even leave negative feedbacks for losers that take 3 weeks to pay!!!!! or those who don't pay at all!
The new feedback policy will drive eBay into the dirt and you losers who only buy on eBay who right now feel like you have been done a great deed are really stupid to realize that in the long run, you lose - with more eBayers leaving eBay - prices of crap you buy will INCREASE - duh. Dumbasses.
Buyers only responsibility
It is ridiculous to say that a buyers only responsibility is to pay for the item. How about reading the full description, looking at photos, reading the return and shipping policy, and not expecting something new out of the box when buying an antique or something that is described as used?
Nope
Once the buyer has paid good money, if they misread the item description it's their problem. The seller does not need to do anything but ship what they described. Yes, the buyer can be an ass about it and complain and demand their money back and threaten negative feedback. They can do that any time, but all the buyer can truly do is leave negative feedback at that point, there is not much else. What you seem to be suggesting is the reason to not give feedback for prompt payment is to reserve the right to exact revenge on a buyer who leaves negative feedback.
That doesn't sound like a very good way to do business to me.
I believe this came into
I believe this came into affect when the seller can only leave positive thats why I love ebay and I'm a seller anyway if a seller waits for the buyer to leave feedback then the buyer has the right not to leave feedback at all or leave negative too say the seller is dodgy and has something to hide like some kind of trick up there sleve lol or just to express his individual feelings about his buy to help others not to be conned.
what about when you pay for
what about when you pay for an item, don't recieve it, communicate with the seller, open a dispute console, communicate for 3 months with
still no resolve with the seller not following his end of the bargin (i.e. investigating the dispute) Is it still 'unfair' to leave a negative feedback? I don't think so!!
Feedback
I like your Ebay feedback ideas. Ebay feedback is a joke. Bad sellers intentionally hold back feedback so that they can retalitate against a buyer who did absolutely everything right! So buyer dont post anything, this makes Ebays feedback system crap.
I also know about the site that rates peoples appearence and you are right, no one is below a 5, but if it makes you feel any better I have rated on it and I rated many below 5!
Fraud with shipping charges
Exqueeze me... where's the guarranty that "seller did everything right"? Some sellers dont state shipping costs in the auction and after auction end, they charge double-tripple on shipping costs (Like that fraudulent chain ISOLDIT), especially foreign and new buyers and then leaves retaliatory negative feedbacks to unsatisfied costumers, who paid $50 to ship an small item, which came broken and was not as described.
Today I asked seller (with no shipping costs posted) a question: "would you ship this item by ACTUAL ship. price + $1.50 handling?" She said: No. I'm loosing so much with paypal, that I have to charge $5 extra. Another wanted extra $10 fro handling, because of a hard ride to postoffice. ;-) .
And I MUST live them positive feedback first? No, I will live them no feedback at all. I will hire a bogus for posting a true negative feedback. After this negative feedback will be removed by Ebay's bogus busters, will be left another one and so on, to warn other buyers . Beware, fraudulent sellers ;-).
Sorry, that franchise chain
Sorry, that franchise chain ISOLDIT means "I Sold It on Ebay"
huh? Are you speaking in
huh? Are you speaking in tongues?
ebays rating rating open to abuse
I agree EBay's rating system is intended to have an economic, rather than aesthetic basis.
For ebay to suceed they need to make people feel comfortable doing something they are normally comfortable with, that is paying for goods online from people they dont now, or naturally trust.
That, I beleive, is the reason they will not be tough in making people look bad. Overall it will be bad for them.
However in the long term I will hope that a lake of empathy or ethics will bring them down.
BTW I pointed out a deliberate lie left against me in neg FB regarding the price. Seller techno56 said the price was lower than what I paid, just to trivialise what I was complaining about. Ebay said they couldnt do anything about it!
Ebay & Paypal sit on fence
I bought a pile of crap ebooks from info-books that were out of date and most had broken links. When I left negitive feedback, he offered me £5 to retract feedback. Sure I could have made a small profit from doing so, but I said no and reported it to EBay. Ha, he is still ripping people off today, 1 year after I complained about him. I sent ebay all the proof of a SCAM and the BRIBES, and they did nothing.
As for Paypal, if a buyer buys an item and don't like it, he can complain to Paypal saying item faulty and get his money back, less postage for returning item, even when the item is not faulty. Trust me, this happened to me.
So, before everyone thinks Sellers are all out to rip buyers off just concider the time wasting buyers that do not read the adverts correctly, causing the sellers to suffer.
Last point. I have been left positive feedback on all my items. On occation I have been unable to leave others feedback because of EBays faulty software, costing me about 20 positive scores!
SELLERS ONLY LEAVING FEEDBACK WHEN YOU DO!
IF SELLERS DO NOT LEAVE POSITIVE FEEDBACK WHEN PAID FOR REFUSE DELIVERY UNTIL THEY DO SO.LEAVE A NEGATIVE AUTOMATICALLY.EXAMPLE."NEGATIVE CRAPPY CUSTOMER SERVICE.SELLER WILL LEAVE NEGATIVE IN RETALIATION"THEN PEOPLE WILL SEE BAD SELLERS AND STOP BUYING FROM THEM.LETS GET BAD SELLERS OFF EBAY.
What an idiotic suggestion.
What an idiotic suggestion. Why on earth would you value Feedback from a seller more than receiving the actual item? Why order it if you don't want it? It's idiots like you who make being a Seller such a nightmare at times.
Just look at your ridiculous suggestion - you have actually said that if the seller doesn't post feedback before you receive the item you will refuse delivery. Well that will be impossible a lot of the time, and even if it is you have instantly broken the sales agreement since there is no way this is a valid legal reason for refusing delivery.
Then your moronic little walnut of a brain suggests leaving Negative feedback claiming bad service and 'seller will leave negative in retaliation'. Well how can they leave a negative in 'retaliation' if you insist on them giving feedback first? The reason people leave you negatives - and it is plain as day from all this that you've got some - is that you're a pain in the ass who wastes everyone's time, causes trouble for no reason and can't read and write.
People like you should be committed to a mental institution and left there for a very long time. You just make life impossible for normal people.
SELLERS ONLY LEAVING FEEDBACK WHEN YOU DO!
I keep reading some of you leaving comments about 'if a seller doesn't leave positive feedback first...' and you get mad, etc. Where exactly do you get that sellers are supposed to leave positive feedback first???? It is almost like you just say it and it's true. Maybe you should bother READING the given eBay policy which is humerous considering their latest dumb option for feedback - it clearly does not say that the seller or buyer should leave feedback first. Educate yourself before looking stupid. Your payment is expected - it isn't your last option - if you're telling me you can not break ANY eBay policies AFTER payment, then you are an idiot...leaving negative feedback without commuinicating at ALL with your seller is against eBay policy - the policy clearly dictates that you should contact the seller with issues prior to leaving feedback. In fact, when you leave a negative or neutral, it clearly states THERE that you need to contact the seller. The ignorance of many buyers and laziness to actually do this amazes me and generally leads to what you eventually whine about as 'retaliatory feedback'. The fact that eBay has given into your whines and stuck a bottle in your mouth and coddled you will be the eventual fall of eBay.
shoulda woulda coulda mabye
shoulda woulda coulda mabye you shoulda check the ebay policy again dumbass it does suggest that sellers leave feedback when payment is cleared anyway all this bloging wont change shit.
You did not enter the blog name correctly. It is ideas, contact me if the you have trouble
:D
If you have a problem with a
If you have a problem with a seller and ask Ebay to resolve dispute. I think Ebay will take side with the seller than the buyer, especially if the buyer is new or has not auctioned much. The reason is simple in this case: seller makes more money for Ebay than the occational buyer. Ebay would like to loose the buyer than the seller. The overwhelmingly positive percentage of feedbacks on Ebay is there for the same reason: The more positive feedback, the more likely someone will buy and the more money Ebay makes. Whether you buy or sell, Ebay makes $$$. When it comes to business, think money.
I can't imagine eBay is too terribly interested to lead a "War on Fraud" because of the potential damage to their business. In this is respect, eBay is a lot like a credit card company. If they crack down on fraud too hard they stand to lose serious money because A. Nobody wants to do business with a bunch of people who all have 48% or 32% or 68% approval ratings and B. Barriers to fraud and bad users are also barriers to ease of use and approachability of the service.
Better to set up a fraud dept., accept a certain amount of lossage/settlements as part of doing business and let users continue to be {altru|optim}istic about each other.
As Brad states, a buyer's ONLY obligation is to send money. Since most of my eBay transactions have been purchases, I have had many (TOO many instances) where the seller has not left feedback - even for my always-prompt payment. I refuse (as a buyer) to leave feedback for a seller who does not post feedback for me. It's just plain rude!
Just last week, I had my first unpleasant experience in five years of eBay'ing. I received an item from a seller who had not left feedback for me (I mailed my money order the day after the auction ended). I was not happy with the item - flaws were not disclosed in the listing - and I notified the seller. After three e-mails and three phone calls went unanswered, I left negative feedback for her. She turned around and posted retaliatory negative feedback for me ruining my 100% rating. What a B**CH!
Indeed, the system needs to be improved.
Jim "R90Sharpie" Sharp
Always try to resolve these
Always try to resolve these problems thru Ebay first. If the other party does not participate the resolution process Ebay will protect you against revenge feedback - they will add a note against the negative feedback and it will not count in your totals (but it will still be visible in the feedback comments).
This is pretty good step that Ebay has takes. But I do have a problem with their half-baked solution. If they have determined that one of the parties is not participating in THEIR OWN dispute resolution process they should block that part from posting any feedback for that particular transaction. Should be easy enough to do. I think active Ebay members should start pushing thme to do that. i send Ebay an email every month telling them they should do that.
eBay resolution system doesn't work.
Twice I have tried to use the eBay resolution for transactions that were fraudulent. (Seller sells one thing on auction and ships something else.) The only response I get is to contact PayPal resolution department since I used PayPal. The only offer from PayPal is for a refund and I will be out the shipping charge of returning the item. Also, I would have to return the item before receiving a refund.
1. I don't want the refund; I want the buyer to fulfill the contract that is the first item in the eBay user agreement: you must provide what you sold on the auction.
2. I should not have to incur charges of any kind for being defrauded by their system.
3. Why won't they provide a refund and when I receive it I'll send the item? Try to have them send you something before the payment! Since I have already proven my legitimacy by paying for it at the time of purchase and the seller has only proven their illegitimacy does this make any sense at all?
Further attempts to resolve through eBay or to submit these issues to PayPal only generate suggestions to use their resolution system to obtain a refund. It's a ridiculous circle and there is not a live person available to speak with.
Sharpie is right!
R90Sharpie,
You did the right thing by leaving a negative for that seller. I hope you posted a followup to the negative you received noting that the seller was nonresponsive to your communication.
Gang,
As long as you are respectful, stick to the facts and do not I REPEAT DO NOT RESORT TO NAME CALLING! The retaliatory negative will have no effect on your record. More than likely in the seller's blind rage, they will not follow my suggestions and break one of those rules. Then any sane person will be able to see what really happened by the "quality" of the 2 feedback comments.
ChuckZilla
We totally agree with Brad and Jim on this. Jim's "unpleasant Experience" has happened to us a couple of times.Something certainly needs to be done about it.
Brad wrote "Another idea however would be double-blind feedback. Thiat is to say that feedback is not revealed until both parties have entered it, or if only one party enters it, after the feedback period has expired."
Good idea Brad, but the only problem is that it is still possible for the other party to leave feedback AFTER the feedback period has expired.
Another idea we had was for Ebay to set up the system so as the seller leaves feedback first. This could be done so that if the seller has not left feedback before the buyer leaves theirs, they do not have the option to leave any feedback.
Regards
Tony & Sarah
Tony & Sarah are genious! Lets do that!
..."to set up the system so as the seller leaves feedback first".
That is so simple and genious, but Ebay will never do that, bacause they don't want to loose money. The worse seller's feedbacks are - purchase level sinks down.
But it would be a great idea to encourage every Ebay seller to send letters to Ebay with this DEMAND. Can be opened public website with collective pros.
My 2 Cents
I tend to agree with Tony & Sarah. In fact, when I started buying and selling on eBay, I just assumed that the policy was that the seller left feedback first, shortly after receiving payment. It just makes sense. I don't believe sellers should leave feedback based on spite. Feedback should be honest and reflect the truth of the transaction.
But it seems to me that in the last year or two I've been buying from more and more sellers who are expecting their feedback first. WTF?!? Currently I am expecting 2 packages sent by eBay sellers of which both haven't left me feedback, even though I paid them well over a week ago.
After some careful though, however, I have reasoned that making either the seller or the buyer leave feedback first may not be the best solution. After all, the buyer could also leave feedback based on spite. That's why Brad's double-blind feedback idea sounds like a good system. Tony and Sarah wrote: "the only problem is that it is still possible for the other party to leave feedback AFTER the feedback period has expired." I am not sure what you mean by this, but I am always the first to admit when it is I who doesn't understand something. :) Seems like if both parties could leave feedback anytime they wanted during the transaction, but neither would be revealed until the transation was over, this would solve the problem fairly. If anyone could explain to me why this wouldn't work, my open-minded ears are wide open. Good idea, Brad.
Just for clarification, I am an eBay buyer and seller. When I am the seller I DO leave feedback immediately after payment. Thus far I have found that if I leave feedback immediately, do an extraordinary packing job, ship immediately, represent my item for sale completely & accurately, communicate effectively and be reasonable I will get positive feedback. So far, anyway...
When I am the buyer I read the entire auction at least twice through, read as much of the feedback of the seller as I can (not just the number and percent), I pay within minutes (most of the time) of the auction close, expect feedback within a reasonable amount of time after payment (yeah, good luck), and on the rare occasion that I do have a problem I just simply contact the seller and it gets worked out. Perhaps I have just been extremely lucky, but I think taking the time to read the auction listing and seller feedback thoroughly help greatly in avoiding the negativities of an eBay tranaction.
And yes, I realize that even though it's 100% positive, my feedback score of 58 isn't that high of a rating. I have been a member since 2000.
Cool blog. Glad I found it.
- Gavin
Open blind feedback policy wont work because...
The reason it won't work is simple...you're assuming that ANY negative feedback left for a buyer who has left the seller negative feedback is retaliatory in nature. The truth is, if you actually reviewed most cases, you'll find that the buyer doesn't always follow eBay policy and make attempts to resolve the dispute beforehand. Most sellers do not want negative feedbacks for obvious reasons - it hurts their sales. I've received a few myself that I chose not to leave a responding negative. But the fact is, most sellers will do everything in their power to resolve issues and some buyers could care less. To me, if a buyer chooses to leave negative feedback and has not tried to resolve an issue at all beforehand, then that buyer deserves negative feedback because he/she has gone against eBay policy and never attempted to resolve an issue. Many of you don't seem to realize that many times sellers ALSO do not leave negative feedback for buyers because they also do not want retaliation feedback. Do you think if I left negative feedback for a non-paying bidder, I wouldn't get one back??? It happens all the time, so I do not leave negative feedbacks for non-paying bidders. NOW, I can't even file an NPB without the fear of retaliatory feedback from them!
The bottom line is, how am I going to know that I was unfairly left negative feedback if the feedback is blind? The feedback system the way it is works. If you choose to leave it, great, if not, move on.
The worse part is, that buyers have no real use for their feedback and still care. Them caring is the ONLY protection some sellers have. Many buyers would care less and carry 90% feedback and leave negatives at will without any communication at all. The fact is, I as a seller think there should be a way for me to block buyers with feedback of that sort....the reality is they can just create new eBay names and use them up until they are beaten down with negatives and then keep creating new ones.
I, however, have to build my overall reputation under one name to build up a score reputable enough for buyers to buy from me. Feedback weighs so much more on sellers that isn't fair as is - this new policy is absolute insurdity and defies logic - something eBay apparently can't seem to find anywhere - guess it wasn't up for bid. In fact, look for my auction upcoming - it's called COMMON SENSE. Maybe someone will purchase common sense from me and give it to eBay.
We totally agree with Brad and Jim on this. Jim's "unpleasant Experience" has happened to us a couple of times.Something certainly needs to be done about it.
Brad wrote "Another idea however would be double-blind feedback. Thiat is to say that feedback is not revealed until both parties have entered it, or if only one party enters it, after the feedback period has expired."
Good idea Brad, but the only problem is that it is still possible for the other party to leave feedback AFTER the feedback period has expired.
Another idea we had was for Ebay to set up the system so as the seller leaves feedback first. This could be done so that if the seller has not left feedback before the buyer leaves theirs, they do not have the option to leave any feedback.
Regards
Tony & Sarah
Ebay only make money from sellers, hence they get a better deal.
Also sellers probably sell lots, so one negative feedback will not hurt them much with the %, but buyers that only purchase now and again will be greatly effected by neg feedback %.
As a buyer I have had problems with false item discriptions, even if you get a refund (not postage) you end up paying postage for the item to you and back. Up till now I have not left any feedback for these bast^^&*ds because of revenge.
The 'one line' of feedback is not enought, I think there should be a page long about the grievence with both sides of the story and any stats from ebay being used i.e: unanswered or rude email etc and let the reader deside the truth.
I always email via the 'ask seller a question' at least that way there may be a log of the event/contents in a dispute.
Ian
Another great idea!
"...there should be a page long about the grievence with both sides of the story and any stats from ebay being used i.e: unanswered or rude email etc and let the reader deside the truth."
Simply to click on the link below each negative feedback... and you know the true story little better!
I agree. Ebay's feedback must be fixed. Sellers get way too much leeway. They get to break the rules and get away with it because that's how the money comes in.
Doubleblind FB is a good idea.
Having the buyer unable to give feedback until the seller does is good also. When I pay you, my part of the transaction is done. Over. That's when you should be giving me the feedback. I do not give FB until and unless I get it for paying you.
I tell all the sellers that want FB first that. Most ignore it. Most get a neutral FB from me then. Most give spite negatives to the neutral, and the dispute claims I filed have turned up NOTHING.
I'm reading these comments
I'm reading these comments on feedback and I agree to an extent. I am actually a seller and I always leave great feedback for my buyers. But I have to say I understand why people wait. I just sold some items to a guy, he bought 7 in total and now wants his money back for 5 of them stated that they where not what I said they where. In no way did I misrepresent my items or try to deceive. I was very honest in listing my item. This guy wants his money back and shipping cost back. By the way he only paid $3.99 for each item. Total sale was $19.95. I'm willing to give him his purchase price back but I can't shill out the shipping cost. I was honest and he just didn't like it when he got it. I think the stuff was all good and have pics to show quality and condition. So now I find myself hostage to negative feedback. Either I bow down to him and give him what he wants or I risk getting negative feedback for 7 items. Some people get stuff and only want a portion and if you don't agree to let them ship the rest back and get refund, your the bad guy and get a negative feedback. I had one lady that it wasn't what she wanted and wanted me to refund money before she shipped back. I refused to refund before I got it back and she left me negative feedback. I think to sum it up the feedback system is just flawed complete for buyer and seller.
Interesting discussion...
Interesting discussion... but not enough words from sellers. As a buyer I always left feedback first to show I was satisfied. As a seller I’ve been thoroughly screwed over by buyers who cant read a description properly (I got negged for sending a dark blue top which was described as "dark blue" in THREE separate places in the auction listing (but the buyer wanted black). I’ve also been negged by someone who evidently didn’t have the brains to use a tape measure on her fat waist then complained that the skirt didn’t fit (id given waist measurements in listing). Worst of all i was the victim of three separate Paypal chargeback scammers (buyers who make outrageously false claims to Paypal & ebay in order to try get the Paypal refunded and still keep the item). I think sellers get screwed over. Having said all that, I still have 99.9% positive and all the friendly & genuine buyers make me really appreciate the fact that the vast majority of people are genuine and to be trusted!!!... I guess there are just some really odd and twisted weirdoes out there, who spoil it for everyone - both buyer and seller. Jules
I sell condoms on a very
I sell condoms on a very regular basis. Basically as much as 1 in 20 people claim that their items never arrive... and if you hold firm and state that they have been sent with Certificate of Posting, then lo and behold they seem to appear as delivered within 24 hours!!!! If I were to give my feedback as positive as soon as payment is received, then trust me, I would be held to ransom from here to eternity by robbing scamming fraudsters... who probably make up about 5% of my clientele. I have ALWAYS sent out my goods... I take eBaying very seriously... and the system is littered with people scamming. Leave a pos on getting your goods... and I will give you one back!! Acknowledging early payment is no good if they lie when their goods get there. Sellers have their genuine reasons for late feedback. PLEASE NOTE!!!!! Greg.
Well, what do you expect?
Greg,
To be honest, what did you really expect when all of your customers are dicks? {insert rimshot here}
Actually, I do see your point.
Cheers,
Ed T.
1 in 20 of your customers
1 in 20 of your customers trying to con you out of a box of condoms? Wouldn't it be easier for them to cop a box of em at a local drugstore?
Sellers should leave first FB!
FB
Sellers should leave feedback first so buyers can then blackmail them to get things that weren't even discussed in the auction?
Back in the old feedback days, I USED to leave FB first until I dealt with unscrupulous buyers (and I have to say that there are more of those out there than ever before now...)
I left pos. feedback for a buyer who purchased an article of clothing.
He received it and said that it was wrinkled.
Wrinkled. It has been neatly folded and put into a shipping box. It was washed and dried first. Which is what I do with all clothing I've ever sold on Ebay.
So this chump demands shipping refund for both ways and a refund. Because his clothing arrived 'wrinkled.'
So since I had made the mistake of leaving feedback for him right off the bat, I did a disservice to other sellers. That buyer wasn't a good buyer. He was a piece of shit. And if he did this to me, undoubtedly he did it to other sellers.
That's a scam. And a half on the part of a buyer.
So is the buyer's job over when they pay?
NO.
This is a buyer/seller RELATIONSHIP. Not the seller show.
IT takes two people to complete a transaction and it's not finished until the buyer gets the item, lets me know the item arrived and that they're satisfied.
Sellers who think the transaction is over after an item has been shipped are SADLY mistaken and they will get ran out of Ebay after dealing with lying buyers for a while.
I'm both a buyer and seller but I've had more problems with buyers than sellers because after the changes, they KNOW they can demand a bunch of bullshit and get away with it since you can't leave feedback to let the rest of the sellers on ebay know they're pieces of crap.
Honestly.
I guess I should quit selling, become a buyer and just randomly leave negative feedback for every transaction, threaten the seller to pay to refund my shipping because the 'color was off' from the photo or the 'measurements were off' from a shirt or it arrived too late, etc, etc, etc.
That's what they're dealing with on Ebay right now. Where the buyer is conceited and feels like they have all the power.
Power to open up unscrupulous paypal disputes, to make irrational demands, etc.
So let it be well understood that shitty people in general make Ebay a hellish experience...not just shitty buyers or sellers. (mostly buyers, fyi)
guiniune my arse some
guiniune my arse some sellers maybe although some just want to rob buyers just as much as the buyers so by falsyfing there items for a quick sale why if they are guiniune sellers tell me that then
ebays rules go against thereself thats why buyers have the upperhand thats not the buyers problem is it r u puzzled yet.
here are not enough sellers...
there are not enough sellers here, because mostly buyers are frightened about unfair Ebay policy and showing their concern. Sellers feeling themselves very comfortable and more protected, than buyers, and that allows sellers to be nasty, non-cooperative and appressing.
When you learn to read,
When you learn to read, write and think, people will take you seriously. You are exactly the type of buyer that can make selling on eBay such a pain in the ass at times. I frequently receive illiterate, rambling, nonsensical emails from buyers who, although clearly too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time, have somehow been allowed to sit in front of a computer and use a credit card.
Sellers do not set out to be 'nasty, non-cooperative and apressing' (sic) - it's just that people like you sometimes make them seem that way.
Third party shipping insurance for full refund.
There are many services that provide third party insurance for shipping. Why not make insurance which cost 30 cent per each $100 and insure an item including shipping costs? In this way buyer will get full refund and seller will not loose money.
not everyone lives in the
not everyone lives in the USA. I.e. from Canada, tracking is $$$$$$$$$
Fix some eBay feedback problems
I just got my first negative feedback.
I still cannot tell what the buyer was pissed at. I did everything right. Everything is stated in the auction page. But he didn't like the shipping charges. But he paid for them.
Do you still sell on ebay? If so is business as brisk?
Thanks
You seem unable to
You seem unable to understand how commercially IMPORTANT feedback is to a seller and how relatively UNIMPORTANT it is to a buyer.
I am a seller, and many potential buyers will decide whether or not to buy from me depending on the number of negatives I have. Thus a negative from a buyer of a $5 item who didn't read the listing, or thought their package should arrive from halfway around the world in 2 days, can potentially cost me an enormous amount of money in lost sales.
For that reason there is no way I am going to respond with a cheery 'Great Ebayer, best in the world, ra ra ra lick lick lick A1+++' type comment immediately after receiving their little pittance. I want them to THINK before they leave ill-judged feedback, damage my reputation and cost me sales for no valid reason. Right now the threat of retaliatory negative feedback is the only deterrent to this kind of nutbag buyer. If they don't leave feedback I don't care - there are plenty of normal, intelligent, reasonable people who will.
For a buyer on the other hand, negative feedback is not usually a great problem, and it certainly doesn't have any adverse financial consequences for the buyer. As a seller I don't normally check a bidder's detailed feedback anyway because there are only so many hours in the day. Even if I did a small percentage of negatives would not necessarily put me off.
Personally I think the feedback system could be improved by allowing separate feedback for Payment Issues, Product Issues and possibly Communication Issues. There is no magic answer though, and I think a lot of buyers get much too worked up about it. For anyone who wants to right the world's wrongs I would suggest poverty and war as more worthwhile issues than trivial arguments over eBay's feedback system.
You said that feedback for a
You said that feedback for a buyer means nothing, yet you say your only recourse is the threat of negative feedback. If it means nothing to them, then go ahead and give them positive. I am much more willing to leave a positive for someone who recognized that I am a good ebayer, than to leave a positive for someone who is holding my positive ransom. I am a seller and a buyer on the same account. So my feedback rating does mean something to me. If you were really worried about it you could check the previous feedback scores to see how the buyer has left in the past. Then based on past feedback decide if that buyer doesn't warrant leaving a positive up front. Just my $.02.
Why do you feel they need to give you positive feedback first?
This seems to be the biggest arguement from all the buyers I read on this blog...you incorrectly assume this is the eBay policy? Perhaps you should educate yourself and READ the policy and you'll find that it clearly indicates that NEITHER is to give feedback for the other, that it is between the two who wants to. So to keep stating that you get upset that you aren't being given positive feedback for simply paying for an item so that you can hold the cards for your own bashing negative feedback when you don't get your way is another example of the problem created by buyers like yourself. I'll say again, are you telling me that after you pay, there is NO policy you can break that would be deserved of negative feedback including not contacting a seller before leaving feedback???
The reality is, all of you keep harping about retaliatory feedback...what is this vile need to leave negative feedback in the first place? Isn't THAT out of hatred also? Who cares? If you aren't happy with a deal, why not just send an item back, get your money back and move on. Why this aggressive need to leave negative feedback for someone? I've carried 100% feedback for over 1000 transaction under 10 different names - all at one time or another have then had someone leave a negative or something stupid and most never bothered to email me beforehand. Your ignorance views this as 'retaliatory'. It isn't retaliation to point out that you left poor feedback without contacting me as a seller and giving me ANY opportunity to resolve an issue, yet you people do it again and again and whine RETALIATORY FEEDBACK...grow up and act like an adult. Nobody cares to hear that constant whining.
The fact is, the same retaliatory feedback you whine about has the exact same nature as the negative feedback you want to leave - you want to bash someone's reputation while saving your own no matter if you are right or wrong. That's a shame that we even use feedback to start with!
Jim Sharp's comment is valid. Why the hell should anyone get revenge neg feedback when they've paid in full directly after the auction.
If the goods are faulty or not as described then it's the seller who should be penalised NOT the innocent buyer! All this revenge feedback business needs to get sorted.
In the past I've not left any neg feedback as I'm afraid of revenge feedback that'll paint me as a bad trading partner... the dodgy seller ends up with getting away with it just to rip someone else off.
Get a grip ebay and do something about it..you make enough money from it!!
Fair comment... but you are
Fair comment... but you are not trying to scam the seller. But the seller doesn't know that Eddie... Believe me, if you had as many Paypal reversals as me, you would only give feedback after receipt. You may be honest... but there are thousands out there who aren't! Sad, but true. I ain't a charity who is going to leave himself open to fraud. If these lowlife scum want free condoms.. go to family plannning... not me!!!
So glad someone is pointing out how sellers also can get hurt...
When I sold actively on eBay - not as a powerseller, but in the hundreds every year - I started by posting feedback immediately after payment.
Then I got burned by a customer who reported that the item was fine (it was a camera), and two weeks later, claimed it was now broken. He shipped the camera back, with partially developed film inside. I had not included film, so it was clear that he had broken it while on vacation - a vacation, I remembered belatedly, he had mentioned taking in his initial emails. Buyer's remorse is very real on eBay. He then began making threats that if I didn't send a full refund and all the shipping costs, he would neg me. Then he wanted more money. I took the neg (after four years, still the only one I have). A friend also shipped out a computer part and got a neg when the customer installed it improperly. Unfortunately, while she apologized and added an updated comment, with so few (20) sales on his account, the neg killed his selling account.
The next major screwing I got was from a buyer who failed to make good on a bad payment (check). They left me neutral feedback, and managed to keep both the item and payment.
What I learned - and observed on the eBay seller boards - is that there are potentially bad people on both sides. (Search for the story of the "fire liar" if you don't believe me, the harrowing saga of a one-woman amateur fire department...fire-liar.info is still archived, along with some of the "incendiary" eBay discussions, over at http://web.archive.org)
And if you are a seller, you want to wait until the transaction is finished and the person is satisfied. Nine and a half times out of ten, the other shoe will never drop, but it's your business.
Everyone knows someone who overreacts at first, but who can be calmed down. Assume that at least one of your buyers is like that, and exercise caution. That may mean getting feedback from them before posting your own, but often, if I just got a happy note that all was well, I left feedback then. Still a bit of a risk, but I'd rather take that one, than just thank someone for their payment - when their payment may still bounce, may not cover enough, or when they provide me with a non-usable shipping address. Most sellers give feedback for the entire transaction - warts and all - not just the money. You forget that sellers get all sorts of weird behavior - from someone wanting to return a movie for a refund because they didn't like the ending, to a person angry because Priority Mail took five days to arrive during the holidays, to someone not bothering to read the description and blaming you for their mistake.
I don't expect feedback and prefer now to leave it in one big clump. And you know, that's my right - just as it's someone else's right to leave bland, negative, even unfair feedback.
Rather than blaming sellers for being mean, or accusing them of being evil people for not leaving feedback immediately, remember that you can always use http://toolhaus.org to see what their feedback style is first - before buying. If you don't think you like the person on the other side, by all means, don't do business with them!
Do they blast people with vindictive, nasty comments?
Do they leave any feedback? (This is valid. Feedback is completely voluntary.) If you want feedback, you may not want to buy from someone who doesn't leave any - or maybe you just don't care as long as the product and service are both good.
Are they polite when having an issue with a customer?
If they've left negatives for customers, are they mostly for non paying bidders (NPBs), and written in a factual, non emotional manner? (This operates as fair warning to other users, buyers and sellers alike).
Nobody doubts
That both parties be problems in a transaction. The main concern is how to avoid feedback that is left, not because of a flaw with what the other party did in the transaction, but in response only to the feedback. The answer will not be perfect. Some buyers can indeed become assholes long after the fact, but this is a minor exception, I think.
Note that whatever system you develop, customers will come to understand what the scores really mean. Today on eBay, everybody knows 97% positive feedback on a lot of transactions means a below average seller, even though it sounds extremely positive.
In fact, one thought might be for eBay, instead of reporting hard feedback scores as the main score, report the _percentile_ ranking of the feedback score for people with a similar number of transactions.
Of course, they might find that would scare more people away. Would you buy from a 50th percentile seller? That's roughly an average one, but it sounds scary.
Jim Sharp's comment not valid...
Again, read my previous writings...your entire argument stems from the assumption that the seller is automatically the guility party. That kind of takes away the basics of our constitution now doesn't it? If you leave negative feedback and haven't bothered to contact the seller to give them the opportunity to fix the problem you're complaining of, then you are breaking eBay policy. Most would be willing to fix issues. Just because you aren't happy doesn't mean they are wrong. Many items in YOUR MIND may seem 'not as described' or 'faulty' when in fact many of the times that concept is in the mind of the ignorant buyer and instead of trying to resolve the issue like an adult, they go straight to negative feedback. Try to avoid ignorance and single-minded thinking here....if you're all for the new policy, don't complain when your'e paying more money for your items on eBay in the near future - that thinking is exactly why great sellers like me are leaving and you'll pay more to who is left to raise their prices and take in that money - larger sellers who could care less to help you and don't mind the negative feedbacks as opposed to smaller, more personal sellers like myself.
I got a negative feedback once for non-receipt for an item sent media mail...THREE DAYS after the guy paid for it and it read -SCAMMER! ITEM NOT SENT! BEWARE! - At the time I had 1400 positive feedbacks and ZERO NEGATIVES...the guy paid right away - your logic says I should have given this guy positive feedback....is that stinking right? Come on now, let's have at least a LOGIC opinion if you're going to waste your time and post them in public.
Another idea however would
Another idea however would be double-blind feedback. Thiat is to say that feedback is not revealed until both parties have entered it, or if only one party enters it, after the feedback period has expired.
Great & this will make fraud very easy. wouldn't you like to see 35 negs the day their given for a scammer? Or would you rather wait the 20-30 days before they post? how many more people would be scammed in the time period?
Feedback is a rating on the entire transaction, not the JUST speed of shipment or paymen 7 NOT a thank yout. I leave feedback when I want too & don't get care when or if I get it back.
I Want the item I paid for Or the money for the item I sold...feedback doesn't matter when it's left.
Most of these comments seem
Most of these comments seem to be comming from ebay buyers. Well, I am a seller and a buyer and the problem is even worse for me. I bought an item and got it two weeks later with bad excuses from the seller. I left positve feedback for him but said that I wouldn't do business with him again. Well, he left me a negative feedback in return. I am a seller also, so this ruined my %100 feedback rating which seems more important for sellers than just buyers. I think ebay should have two feedback ratings, one from sellers and one from buyers. That way buyers would know that all other buyers were happy and just retalitory sellers were leaving bad feedback.
open an ebay account just
open an ebay account just for buying.
I both buy and sell and this
I both buy and sell and this has raised some interesting thoughts to me. Now that PayPal has been integrated into eBay, why should sellers be able to give negative feedback when buyers can pay via a tracked method? I mean, say when you list the item, you specify that payment must be made via PayPal within three days of the auction ending. If that happens, then the seller should NOT be able to leave bad feedback.
Does that make any sense to anyone?
Hi, I know this is an old
Hi, I know this is an old topic now but i was just reading it and i disagree, I think the duty as a buyer is not just to pay and then recieve positive feedback, what if the buyer ignorantly misunderstood the listing - this is not the seller's fault, however the seller is likely to recieve nefative feedback when the buyer recieves something other than expected - so, in my opinion, in that case the buyer should recieve the negative feedback.
It makes no sense at all...
What you say makes no sense at all because you're assumption is that the only duty that a buyer has is to pay for their item...do you honestly think a buyer an not break other eBay policies after they pay for an item? The truth is, nearly ALL sellers will not leave buyers negative feedback for belated payments regardless as long as it eventually gets paid because of the same reason being whined about by buyers - they don't want retaliatory feedback...so should I as a seller be able to leave you as a buyer negative feedback for not paying timely and then you can't leave ME negative feedback? THat would be fair wouldn't it? How many times do buyers avoid negative feedback for this reason? It goes unmentioned simply because sellers have no reason to whine about it.
retaliatory negative feedback
something should be done, i agree---double-blind is a good idea, if there is a time limit beyond which feedback can't be left. i have three negatives now, all from sellers who didn't like that i left them negative feedback that they deserved. Out of the 1500-odd feedbacks I have that works out to a 99.8 per cent positive rating for me, but it still sucks! The most recent one was the worst--CHELSEA'S TRADING POST--charged me double on shipping, and even though I paid him right away, I did ask (after I paid) if it had really cost that much to ship. I got a nasty reply via email and dropped the issue. Then, it took weeks for the item to arrive. So I gave the guy a neutral--and he turned around and gave me a negative, saying I hadn't wanted to pay. Which was a total lie, since I had sent him payment that day. I looked at his feedbacks and saw that he'd done that to at least five other ebayers who all left him neutrals, and he gave them negatives. There really should be some recourse against people like that.
Obligatory shipping costs listing
Obligatory shipping costs listing or integrating a sh. calculator to the page - will eliminate extra charge on shipping costs.
No it won't. Automatic
No it won't. Automatic shipping calculations have to be based on something - weight, for example. So a seller could simply exaggerate the weight to increase the shipping cost.
Plus in any case, packing, labelling and dispatching packages incurs genuine costs (materials and time) and there is no reason why these should be free.
Shipping calculator
Does that shipping calculator calculate in handling costs and packaging?
What would truly eliminate what buyers call higher shipping costs is buyers simply reading the listed shipping costs and deciding if they are too high or not to bid on and moving on if they feel they are! How is that so difficult? I remember a day when buyers reviewed the overall cost of an item including the bid and the s/h and decided if their bid was worth what they were purchasing...now buyers are so lazy they can't even view the shipping and HANDLING costs.
A better idea is simply to have the s/h next to your bid and when you enter a bid, show the overall cost at the time of bid for that item. Then you'd know how much money you were bidding altogether WITH shipping and handling. This problem seems to be the easiest to resolve.
So what's the point having a
So what's the point having a feedback system if you don't read the feedback?
It seems to me that in this case the feedback system worked perfectly - if you had taken the trouble to look at the seller's feedback BEFORE you gave the neutral you would have seen how the seller behaved in similar situations.
Seller Perspective
Hello, I am an eBay seller, and I leave feedback only after it is left for me. Here's why: On no less than three occasions, buyers made unreasonable requests, or expected a brand new item when it was very clearly stated as used. in one case, the buyer tried to tell me he had the item repair and wanted $40, the high bid was $25. I had to cave in to these requests to keep my 100% rating intact, costing me time & money. When I finally received my first neg, (retaliatory) it was actually a relief. Feedback left for a seller first states: "I am satisfied & this transaction is closed". In my book, no feedback is a transaction still open, and open to feedback extortion. Ultimately most eBayers can see a vengeful/idiotic/impatient buyer or seller by spending 5 minutes looking at feedback left & received.
So perhaps there are two rounds needed (or 1.5 rounds)
I think most buyers agree that 90% of their duty is to pay, and only a small fraction to be a "reasonable buyer." Indeed, some buyers can be pains in the butt and unreasonable but once a buyer has sent their money the feedback is the only thing they have left.
So one could imagine a 3 step feedback -- seller indicates rapid payment (automatic with paypal), buyer indicates satisfaction with product, seller indicates satisfaction with buyer.
Or alternately, negatives that were left in response to a negative could be counted. Thus making it rewarded to feedback first, because your negatives would be full force, and not listed as being in response to a negative.
ebay Buying and Selling (Ver. 2)
Edited: Brad, please delete my first post. Thank you!
I have been selling and buying on ebay for years now and I have 100% positive in the 3 digits and great comments (not counting the endless number that never do leave feedback and not because they are unhappy, they just don't care as they will never sell or buy much on ebay anyway). Not everyone who is honest has "realistic" amounts of negatives (ie does not engage in fruad). I have seen people in the 4 digit feedbacks with 100%! If they were not honest sellers, then someone with small feedback rating (that does not care as they will just make a new id) would have given them a negative by then. No one is forcing people to buy one ebay. Yes some of the best deals are there, but there are other way to get things if you hate ebay that much.
Also, I have to say that fees for ebay and paypal are WAY TOO HIGH. And they get higher by the day it seems. ebay gets more business, fees go up! Compare the ebay Australia fees for things like cars and trucks to ours. Even with the exchange rate the way it is, they pay MUCH less on those and even standard items! UNFAIR! I think as ebay gets bigger and more tranical, then someone will mount a real alternative that will pull away ebay business. I would like to see a low flat listing fee for all items. ebay would still make money as they would have that damn final value fee, but at least it would be easier on sellers if the item did not sell. OR, fees would only take effect if the item sold; not sure what that would be like. Anyway on to the real issues:
Yes, some feedback could be too high as people don't want revenge feedback. However, there are many sellers, who like me, are honest.
Anyway, I don't leave feedback unless the buyer does first. Look, to expect the seller to leave feedback first as soon as payment arrives is lunacy. If I send off an item after payment is made, and some little idiot buyer thinks it's not what he/she paid for (buyers over react on even little things) then they give me a negative because they don't have anything to lose at that point, as I have given them positive first. Is that fair if the item is good and just the buyer wants to be an @#$? No, it is not. A seller MUST have a way to make an unhappy buyer step back, think, and try to resolve the issues with the item before they go off half cocked and leave a negative. But, I agree that buyers have it bad too; leave a neg. for an seller who will not help resolve the issue and whack, you get a unjust negative in return.
I have all sorts of rules stated in my auctions that state that the buyer should contact me before a negative (and then I leave a negative for them in return if I think they deserve it). As someone who has been threatened several times with a negative (people need read the description!), and who cares about a 100% positive, I have worked and resolved every case to buyer satisfaction.
It is not a perfect system; I received a slip from my shipper for duty and GST fees for an item to Canada months after the delivery of the item. I know that the feedback for the item is still active and so I will have to wait to send a letter to the buyer indicating that he owes me the fees; as it is stated the customs fees are the buyers problem and not mine.
I say better no exchange of feedback rather than leave myself open to unjust negatives.
You could have a system where if the seller wants the positive that the buyer has already left then they must leave a positive for the buyer. If the buyer leaves a negative, then it will show up after a certain amount of time. The only way it would not show up, would be as in other ideas, if the issues was resolved and the buyer elected not to have the pending neg. show and changed to a positive for example. The seller could still leave a neg in return, and this is not a perfect system like any other, but it would help to get sellers to remember to leave that positive in return for the positive left for them byt the buyer. This would also maintain the protection the the seller must have from buyers who need to stop and think before they act.
Will this or another reasonable system protect buyers from low feedback users who don't care about the rating? No, and the current system will not either. I require a, like many sellers, to have a minimum feedback rating in order to bid without contacting me and explaining that they have looked and understand all the rules, etc. So far this has worked.
You could have a device that would be separate of feedback in the users feedback profile and would not count on the rating. It would be an area that you could leave a comment (about a paragraph) on the experience with the other user and once the buyer posted in this area, both the seller and buyer would not be able to leave any feedback. The other user would have the opportunity to leave a comment in return in this area. All the comment would show up on both the buyer and sellers profiles. Each user would only get one comment per transaction. If they buyer did not post in the "alternative area" then they would have to option to leave a negative and seller in return. This could be coupled with the idea that unless the seller leaves a positive in return for the buyer, then the positive that was left for the seller would never show. This sounds like a somewhat "better" system, but I am sure it is not perfect and has some flaws somewhere.
Have I been scammed? Yes several times! One was when I was newer to eaby. I paid for Capcom arcade system parts and never got the item. I e-mail and e-mailed, but I never got it and I never left feedback. I try to look at the feedback of people now and compare feedback for items that are like the one I want to bid on. I think this gives me an idea of what to expect for a item from a certain buyer on the basis of what she/he has sold in the past.
You know, if you look at all the bootleg anime CD's and DVD's on ebay you get an idea of what ebay will allow! These are HK rips or ones made with a DVD-R copy system; ANYONE, EVEN NON-OTAKU, can spot these fakes. You would think that ebay would start removing them, but they don't and it is because they do make money off fakes! I have sold some Unix tapes that were the "real deal" and ebay came a took them off because they said they were "beta ware". Beta ware? they had to be kidding! So they end up removing that stuff, but not the really illegal items, what's up with that? I also think that large sellers that sell fakes get a "pass". ebay knows they make allot of money off these large volume rip-off sellers and for that they get a pass. You know what I am talking about! And many of them have a pile of negatives, but they still get a pass as fraud does pay on ebay.
Is any feedback system going to take care of these issues without punishing honest sellers and buyers? NO! ONLY EBAY can stop this crap by removing sellers who are by far and away frauds (but some of my and other ideas will keep the fraud down to a lower level). Still that won't stop them from just starting over on ebay, except they won't have much feedback.
As far a sniping; sure it would be great if I was selling an item for it to extend as long as bids happen. BUT, as a buyer who does not want to have to pay a jacked up price becasue the auction extends forever I say stay with the current system. If you extend, only the one with the deep pockets will have the final bid. With a ending time in place it treats everyone more fairly; deep or shallow pockets.
I wonder what it would be like if google started auctions?
There should be systems to
There should be systems to encourage resolution of problems, but what you suggest amounts to "feeback on feedback" which is pointless, or should be its own category. Indeed, with the ability to comment, eBay now lets you respond to negative feedback and say about why it's unfair.
I don't want to see people's feedback that was a response to a first feedback. I want to see feedback about how well they performed in the transaction, not in the feedback system! For the buyer, 99% of the duty is quick payment. The seller has more duties, that's the life of the seller.
EBAY FEEDBACK PROBLEM SOLVED
I am a Ebay buyer and seller. From a buyers point of view it is quite simple, bid and pay for your item promptly and then upon receipt, if you are happy, leave positive feedback for the seller, in 9 out of 10 cases feedback will be left for you the next day. If you are not happy contact the seller ASAP to advise, and if you bought your item from a member with a high positive feedback ratio, who has been a member for a couple of years, then you should have no problems getting the matter resolved amicably. If this fails contact paypal (within 30 days) to initiate a complaint, Paypal are very good and are always act in the buyers favour, in 9 out of 10 cases if you get no suitable answer from the seller, paypal will automatically refund you your money. ALL I WILL SAY IS THAT PEOPLE DO NOT READ THEIR EBAY ADVERTS PROPERLY OR ASK THE SELLER ANY QUESTIONS PRIOR TO BIDDING, and if buyers would adhere to the above two points their ebay experience will go smoothly.
The way it really should be done.
The system should be changed alright. More stern criteria.
Sellers: Cannot sell an item the following day till feedback is left for the last payment experience(s). This must also be prior to shipping the item with a recorded date that MUST be entered. No trouble for a power seller since most use automated programming anyways. They simply won't be able to put in the next day's auctions till the bids are won for the previous batch. This also forces them to keep a tally so they dont send the wrong item.
Buyers: Must leave feedback before being able to bid on a next item. This expires in 90 days, only then allowing the buyer to bid on the next auction but, NOT leave feedback on the previous auction
Leaving feedback is
Leaving feedback is optional, not compulsory.
Feedback is not about whether a buyer paid or if a seller shipped, it's about what your experience with another eBay member was.
This can only be done once a transaction has been completed.
So when can you consider a transaction completed?
For buyers: A transaction is completed once the item has arrived. Factors which may influence the feedback left at that point may include whether the item is as advertised, the ship by which it was shipped, how it was packed, whether the seller was courteous.
For sellers: A transaction is completed once the buyer has indicated that he or she is satisfied with the transaction, which is usually expressed by leaving positive feedback.
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