How would I end it?

How will the two part final episode go down? There are many good possible predictions, but nobody on the outside truly knows.

But given the constraints that the ending is sad and dark, here's how what I would want to see. Not what we necessarily will see.

  • The Final Five will die, in the course of saving humanity and uniting humanity and all the Cylons except probably Cavil. This is a classic rule of tragedy. They had good intentions, but spawned evil in spite of them, and so they will die making it right.
  • There is not enough time for the "string puller" to appear as an on-screen character, but...
  • The string puller will provide some expository explanation of things, speaking through head characters to everybody who has had a head character. She will announce who she really is. Baltar will see her has a Six. Six will see her as a Baltar. Roslin will see her as an Elosha. Starbuck will see her as a Leoben and/or her father. Adama will see her as the first Hybrid. The Final Five will see her in the form of the messengers they saw 2,000 years ago.
  • Most of it will be shown as a Six explaining things to Baltar, but interspersed will be clips of the same story being told to the others.
  • Baltar and Caprica Six will work together with the Final Five and create a computer virus which infects the ships of Cavil's factions to disable them. In addition, this virus will remove the inhibitors from Cavil's centurions. This will help redeem Baltar for his role in allowing such a virus to be inserted into colonial systems.
  • One of the Final Five, Sam, will pilot the Galactica against Cavil's forces and crash it into them. This may play a role in planting the virus, which may be done by the others in the final Five.
  • When Ellen goes out on her suicide mission to recruit the Simons and Dorals, Bill says to Saul, "It's too bad she won't live. But then again, who does?" (Ok, not really.)
  • For added irony, the lobotomizing of the raiders should interfere with their ability to defend the Colony. (Though not too ironic as unlobotomized raiders would not attack the F5.)
  • Baltar lives because he needs to play a role in saving Hera and raising her to be the first of the joined generation.
  • Athena and Helo die. But before they do, they become convinced either by virtual beings, or by the Final Five, that it is god's plan that Baltar and a Six raise Hera.
  • Boomer dies saving Hera from Cavil and getting her partway out.
  • The head-beings explain who the Lords of Kobol were, and what happened when the 13th tribe was expelled, and when the rest were expelled 2,000 years later. Their fate may be revealed.
  • The head being reveals that the Lords of Kobol were once humans on the ancient homeworld of humanity who developed A.I. and elevated themselves to godlike status. They took their Children with them and settled on Kobol after a man-machine war, and lived with a paradise among them. The String Puller herself was a woman on the ancient home. Her DNA, in archives has been re-used from time to time, most recently by the Final Five to make one of the 8 Cylons they made.
  • She reveals that even the humans are artificial, though much closer to original humanity than the Cylons. Starbuck had to die and be recreated to show them that even humans like her are children of God.
  • The Simons and Dorals, given the full scoop about their creation by the Final Five, rejoin with the rebels. Cavils are mostly killed by Centurions and fleet forces. All Cylons and humans are now united.
  • The String Puller reveals that this union was the goal of all the troubles and mysteries. She appears to Starbuck as her father and shows them the way to a new, blue planet. Roslin dies in orbit over the planet.
  • The fleet settles on the planet. It is the real Earth. On it are ancient ruins of the Pyramids, Mt. Rushmore, New York, all destroyed for many thousands of years, but the planet is inhabitable. The date is revealed. A.D. 8,000.
  • Baltar and Six will raise Hera, along with the combined and united Cylons, Centurions and humans, who vow to make more like her and end the Cycle.
  • Cut to a street in New York. A.D. 2009. We see a Six, but slightly different, in her red dress. She has just receieved her PhD in Artificial Intelligence. She's out on the town, celebrating. She purchases a copy of Electric Ladyland by The Jimmy Hendrix Experience. She smiles.

(As noted, some of the things here are based on constraints and information that has leaked out. I would not do the final scene in New York that way, and I think making Baltar in charge of Hera doesn't make a lot of sense but it's been predicted so much, which means Helo and Athena have to die.)


I've read the topic and spoilers. I'm a bit burned out with the whole thing and people can get emotional so I'm a bit lost about what to say. There's some pluses and minuses in both. Overall, I tend to prefer Brad's vision to what BSG has delivered. It just seems more coherent and meaningful. Other people have positions to defend, and their own likes and dislikes. It was a ride. There will be other shows.

...for me anyway. There will be no other SF shows. None that deliver the flat out drama that BSG has. In the same way that Dark Knight legitimized comic book films, Ron Moore's BSG has done the same for television sci-fi. It's as dramatic and well-written as any real-world show on TV. It's been far from perfect, this season especially, but let's face it: it will be many many years before a sci-fi TV show of this quality is ever seen again. There will be many imitators, to be sure.

Brad, on topic, your ending works, and much of it seems like it may even be what we see tonight and next week. I'm very excited!

I agree, The Dark Knight and BSG have been significant but other shows have gone before and other shows will emerge. The trick, like understanding economics, is realising we (you, me, us) live in this moment. People used to comment like that about Space: 1999 and Blake's 7 but as informative and influential as they are they're history. BSG and Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chricles is today and, unless I'm mistaken, there will be a tomorrow.

These shows also build on the traditions of skill laid down by previous generations in other genres, and plunder and rework material from many different sources, ancient and modern, fictional and real, mythological and scientific. There is little that's new or original in any of them, and the same could be said of earlier craftsmen and their works. Without, say, Bruce Lee's Enter the Dragon and Blake's 7 it's possible BSG would never exist.

We can only hope it ends this neatly and with this much of the curtain being pulled back. I hope it does -- and if it were to end generally along these lines, it would do a lot to tie up loose ends and still convey the kind of drama and emotion that the show's creators seem to want to convey. (But of course, at this point, how many more "Bill Adama freaks out in his quarters" scenes can there be left?)

My big concern is that they'll gloss over the Kobol history, thinking that this is boring detail even though, to me, it would probably be my favorite moment of the entire series.

My other concern, which I've expressed often here, is that they're going to leave critical details out, reserving them both for The Plan and the Final Five comic series as well as for the Caprica series. I just find it hard to believe that the writers were not thinking about their "next job" as they wrapped up BSG and so they left some unanswered questions...

The one thing not covered here that I am curious about is how they're going to handle the fate of the colony/homeworld that we saw in the last episode. As was well documented here, the place his huge and menacing, which I attribute to the writers wanting to have the big bad badguy base more than as a result of anything dictated by the show's plot. (In fact, a "small" colony/homeworld makes more sense, in that the cylons appear to be a space-based civilization and don't need a massive homeworld.)

Oops. Got cut off...

To continue... I just wonder what they're going to do with the colony. It's sheer size means it probably can't be destroyed by ramming it with Galactica. (And also, haven't we seen the use of a battlestar to destroy a cylon attack in the escape from New Caprica? Are they really going to use the whole we'll-ram-them-with-galactica-and-then-get-out-of-here tactic again??)

The alternative is some kind of Death Star weakness, where one little shot in the right place (and some convenient self-sacrifice) will cause the whole place to go up.

Or... and this is what confuses me, the colony will survive even as the survivors go on to find earth. Really? Would it just float out there in space? Would the centurions live there? Would the humans be comfortable with that? Isn't the point that we're supposed to end the cycle... and wouldn't the survival of the colony raise serious doubt about this?

In any event, I shall watch with eager eyes.

That's why my proposed ending suggests the right way to write a defeat for it is to have a rebellion by the Centurions, Simons and Dorals.

The Centurions have an obvious motive to rebel, if they can be freed.

The Simons and Dorals, if they learn that Cavil played with their memories, erased their knowledge of their upbringing and creators, and then learn that they just helped kill those creators, could have a motive to turn on Cavil.

i like it - foreal, they should have had you on the show as an adviser


Without being specific can you say how much of what you mentioned is leaked?

Only a few things were based on spoilers. The many descriptions of the ending as heart-wrenching with many deaths mostly. And one very specific item and the things leading up to it.

Ok, they've established that FTL engines can do a lot of damage as a plot point close to the finale, and now we have the final battle happening next to a black hole's singularity, plus a rumor on IMDB that Adama set's the FTL's engines to overload of the Galactica, plus in the previews for next week you see someone turning a glowing blue key! I sense some kind of science fiction explanation coming. Time travel, time-line reset?

Well, he promised us no time travel. I hope he sticks to it.

Naked singularities are now considered impossible by more recent research, but I can forgive them with not being up on that. They have never really been a practical way to time travel or space travel, but rare is the SF that understands that.

But you could be right, the presence of the singularity might well play in the plot to allow them to destroy the base (and themselves). Since the jump drives are hidden magic, they can pretty much do what they want combining them with a singularity. I still like the plot coming full circle with a disabling virus, though. No sign of it, and perhaps too Independence Day.

I don't think there'll be time travel or any Trek-like plot device. But your hunch about the singularity being more than a coincidence is valid. It could play into their plan to destroy the colony: simply push it out of orbit and it gets sucked in. No need for an assault.

This is what allows a single ship to destroy the colony that dwarfs it's size by about a million times.

Ellen should not approve of killing all her beloved Simons and Dorals. She would be sad even at killing the Johns.

There won't be time travel. The flashbacks were symbolic of their lives flashing before their eyes. They are all as good as dead.

Maybe the colonial survivors settle with the cylon survivors on the colony and there's some sort explanation as to why everyone really comes from earth. (To me the Caprica Six in NY scene seems to indicate that life does begin on "our Earth" in BSG2, even if our Earth just happens to have been renamed Kobol) My most sincere hope is that there is no "real earth" or "new pristine planet" that materializes from nowhere (I would accept settlement on Kobol, New Caprica or the algea planet), otherwise Revelations and Sometimes a Great Notion turn into pointlessly cruel jokes.

If there is no real Earth, then I think the 13th colony "Earth" is a great disappointment, for I feel it violates the "contract with the audience" if you promise them Earth for 3 years, a name that has great meaning for them, and deliver something else that you call Earth.

If there is a real Earth in the show, that's better from that standpoint. The 13th colony Earth becomes a way to explain the legends of Earth being founded by a 13th tribe and lost. They set out, and named their new home after a planet from their old legends. Perhaps they even set out to find the legendary Earth but were stopped by the string-puller, and so named the planet they found.

I personally would have just had the 13th tribe not exist, but this is not the plot that Moore wanted. And he wanted to resolve the question of the 13th tribe, and the origin of the Final Five, earlier in the game, and I can see the merits of that. To do that he needed a Cylon planet.

The singularity may have been introduced for the very reason they say on the show: to create a near impossible assault. To make the attack so daunting that it would seem like a miracle to even attempt it. The writers may (stress: may) have just wanted to wow the audience with the sheer power of the colony and impossibility of its defeat.

The real question is: why didn't they put the resurrection hub there? I could counter-argue that the singularity as a parking spot may be a new move for the cylons, as last episode it was clearly somewhere else. We'll see.

But my dwindling expectations over the past weeks lead me to expect something less well thought through, with more dangling ends and no resolution to the Earth Question. My guess is, having started the show and wrestled with "what do we do about Earth?", which is a fundamental problem in any BSG, Ron came up with the loophole-ish "it's just a planet called Earth in *their* Universe, which has no connection to *our* universe" and felt that this was a great get-out. Which I don't think it was.

But anyway, after all this wading through filler and, in my view, misjudged writing that misunderstands what the audience want and need from the ending of the show so far, I'm strongly inclined to think we're not going to get a good wrap up at all. It's easy for a writer to convince themself that dangling and contradictory plot ends will be seen as cool and challenging questions which deepen the story, and I suspect that's what we're going to be left with in many respects. I won't be surprised if there's no explanation of the stringpuller at all, with any disappointment at such being answered with the: "UR a simpleton who wants everything laid out in front of you" argument.

I hope to be proved wrong though.

B A T T L E S C A M -- G A L A C T I C A

For All Geeks Who Want A Darker, Even Brooding Show...

"Want An Amazing Collection of Professional Producer Secrets To Honestly Work Ratings Miracles?"

Do You make these common mistakes with your show?
"Do you make these common mistakes with your audience ?

1. Yelling at your audience to "SHUT UP" when they scream
2. Over-reacting and shouting "OOOH", "AAAH" or "OUCH" whenever the critics bite
3. Giving your audience only crumbs to nit-pick
4. Placing the script with websites gaurenteed to leak to the internet
5. Putting your audiences eye focus above DD breast level
6. Having a single macho-man in your cockpit
7. Placing the FTL drive too close to an exterior cowling
8. Placing yourself in too many obvious villain's traps

Even if you are doing any one of the above, you are inadvertently snowballing bad Producer behavior. It's time you correct your Producer techniques to become a perfect Producer in just 15 easy days..."

Alan Smithee ( A Sci-Fi Producer For The Last 12 Years)


* Enjoy the fun of what it really means to CREATE a loving and hilarious audience that talks, tricks, and plays like a small child...

* Stop the bad behavior, even if your audience is currently BEHAVING like a mean, old, spoiled, and viscious grump, that bites and screams bloody murder!


To those who think it's unfair, understand what I want to avoid, which is the long personal shouting matches which dominate so many online forums, which quickly become about the personalities and not about the topic. Every fannish forum I have seen also has its share of annoying critics who baffle people because they keep writing about a show they dislike rather than just not watching. But they are writing about the show at least. There's a very annoying poster in the USENET battlestar group who thinks it is amusing in every post to compare Ron Moore to L. Ron Hubbard. It's probable he does it to get people riled up. He's very tempting to killfile, but at least he is writing about the topic. Deciding to delete posts that are on-topic but disagree with you crosses over the line between board management and board editing.

The real sinners, it turns out, are the people who then respond with personal comments and start long threads about personalities. It takes two, or more, to tango. The odd lone post that nobody responds to does not choke the comments with noise. A long thread does. If you think somebody is being an idiot, and not out of innocent ignorance, the right response is to not respond.

That being said. It seems in this particular instance, when called out the offender leaves until you delete the comments. Wouldn't it be best to leave the object there that embarrasses them and has them not posting at all. Once you delete the thing that embarrasses them they seem to come back every time. There is a reason why often you will see scathing remarks left up in some forums when it comes to trolls. Sometimes it is like a scarecrow and keeps them away.

Then they live for the reaction. Negative comments don't scare them, they attract them. The one thing a true troll hates the most is not being replied to.

Anyway, people are free to reply to other posts with criticisms of the ideas, as long as they are not spoiled by criticisms of the writer. But if somebody posts something that to you reads as "This show sucks" the right answer is no answer. It really is. If they are a troll, it is what they fear the most. If it is an honest opinion, it's not complex enough to merit response. Asking "why do you watch the show?" is boring. Who cares why an anonymous person does or doesn't watch the show?

My rules indeed, but I hope they are not just mine. Does anybody enjoy reading long back and forth threads that devolve into personal mud throwing, other than those with the mud on them?

How do you explain the Kobolian civilization, and the colonies, having so much of their beliefs based on ancient Earth's polytheist religious beliefs, instead of the prevailing religious beliefs of our time? Even the prevailing polytheist beliefs of our time are different from those of ancient times. I don't think an Italian has prayed to Jupiter in about 1500 years!

Primarily that whoever set themselves up as the Lords of Kobol wanted to take those names.

The Galactica 1980 explanation never made any sense, since we have older cultures like the Chinese and Indian who never used Roman gods or anything from that culture. Galactica back then was like the typical western-centric culture of the time. Sure, it said that possibly the Mayans, Egyptians and Toltecs came from the Colonials, but it makes no sense that the older cultures would have no trace of their gods and the newer cultures like Rome would be all over them. None of the ark theory can be made to make sense.

I like the computer virus scheme, but with a twist:

Starbuck is trying to decipher what the music really means. She has even started assigning numbers to the musical notes in an effort to crack the song's code. In walks Baltar, math genius with a giant guilt monkey on his back. Baltar is able to combine Hera's dots/music and Starbuck's notes to create either a virus that saves the day e.g. Independence Day (lame), or . . . perhaps the code/language that Cylons/Cavil use to communicate/control Centurions.

What once seemed like a suicide mission turns into one helluva gamble, "this had better work . . ." type moment. Galactica jumps in and broadcasts the cracked Centurion language, rendering Cavil and the skin jobs at the mercy of the "good guys." Ellen gets plenty of time to lecture Cavil on mortality and love blah blah blah and we get closure on the song and Hera's destiny/purpose in this whole mess. More importantly, we see why the song was able to awaken the F5. I'm hoping the whole time warp thing can be avoided.

Why did Starbuck know the song? Starbuck's dad is, of course, that boxed artsy skin job, handing down the knowledge. Why did Starbuck die and come back . . . I have no idea? Although I did see a guy who looked a lot like Jimmy Hendrix hanging out in front of a 7-11 last week, there could be a connection. . .

Make Frak, not War.

I don't think he's Daniel, we have been told we don't hear of Daniel again in this show.

But it does make sense to combine the music. The music comes from via external string-puller though. However, it could indeed be the key to de-inhibiting the Centurions. That is a good project for Baltar and Six to put their skills to.

However, for a good battle (and based on the scenes from next week) things will not go well at first for our Heroes. In fact, like in any drama, all will seem horribly lost at some point in the battle, with defeat assured. And then something will fix it. Perhaps a virus like this. Perhaps a Simon/Doral revolt, or perhaps that singularity.

"all will seem horribly lost at some point in the battle, with defeat assured. And then something will fix it. "

What if nothing fixes it? What if they are defeated? We've been promised a dark ending. Nothing darker than the end of humanity. I would love an ending where both sides are wiped out.

Even if they win, if there really is a genetic difference between Cylon and Human, the Human race is done once interbreeding begins.

we have been told we don’t hear of Daniel again in this show.

I agree we won't hear from him from him, but it was not said that we will not hear from him. It is assumed we won't by many people, like yourself and myself, but no one has said for sure no.

Islanded podcast was released.

RDM reconfirms Naturalistic Science Fiction has nothing to do with science fiction. RDM says this show is a drama that happens to be in space. I know this will annoy Brad because he has said that under those circumstances there is no point in having space at all, you could easily set the show on the ground. I guess the answer is, because they wanted it to be in space.

Daniel, won't be coming back, get over him, he is done.

Baltar has become a true believer. This is why he outs Kara. He sees it as a religious miracle that a non-Cylon can be resurrected. RDM however does not say she is human. He paints the picture from the point of view of how Baltar would react were she human and what that means, but never specifically says she is human. Is she? Interesting question for next week.

Will Roslin die? Maybe not. Adama and Galactica. Moore admits he may have gone overboard with the looking at goo, feeling the walls, etc. Watching one episode at a time he didn't notice, but when re-watching them back-to-back he thinks he could have cut a few of those scenes out because the picture was painted.

Things to look forward to after the show is done. Ron kept the pre-season 4 writer's retreat tapes and the post-strike retreat tapes. We will get to hear where the changes were made and when and what the thought was behind them.

It isn't Jupiter. Forgot to mention that. Just a don't make me pull this Raptor over and beat you senseless by the side of the planet moment.

Since RDM confirms that Daniel is not Kara's father, I started wondering how she saw a head person. Granted, we still don't know how anyone sees head people. Without much explicit evidence though, I've generally thought you need to be not-quite-human to see them. The constant teasing (until recently) that Baltar was a cylon fed this speculation. here's a likely incomplete list of those who do see head people [viewer (Head Person)]:

1. Kara (Slick)
2. Baltar (Six, Baltar)
3. Six (Baltar)
4. Maybe Tigh seeing Ellen's face on the Six when she's in the brig.

these apparitions have a common quality: They are perceived as a part of the present action by the viewer, and the viewer alone. The viewer even experiences them as a physical entity, as Baltar does when head Six gets him up again to challenge the marine in front of his harem's quarters.

There is one more type of vision/head person in the show. This is the 'time between the jumps' vision experienced by Roslin in which she is guided by virtual Elosha. Here the viewer is witness to a possible future in which a version of themself appears. The viewer is unable to intervene in events they witness.

Finally, there is Starbuck's vision of saying goodbye to her dying mother in 'Maelstrom', guided by virtual Leoben. This is similar to Roslin's between the jumps vision (there is a guide, a time that has not/did not exist is visited)...but, Starbuck the viewer is able to interact with the characters in the vision, unlike Roslin. Also, even if Starbuck is somehow 'jumped' at the end of 'Maelstrom' rather than blowing up, she experiences this vision prior to it, as a nearby Lee hears her on com after the vision is complete. Thus, it cannot be a 'between the jumps' moment.

I don't include the Opera House visions, or Roslin's 'I'm not ready to die' vision of her mother, because they are much more like dreams than waking visions.

I'm motivated to bring all this up because I am hoping for a consistent (within BSGs internal logic) explanation of the visions this Friday. Furthermore, I would be very surprised if the origin of head people is not somehow related to the doings of the OTG/SP. Still...

here's what would be disappointing: The OTG/SP is speaking to a chosen few thru head people. Why? Because he wants to. How? um, because he can. Why don't others in the cast have head people? because they don't. I suppose it comes down to the issue of why some characters have head people and others do not--if they can address this, they will by default also be addressing the origin of the head people.

Some guesses:

1. Head people are a mechanism of the OTG revealing itself to humans and cylons, but the mechanism is sexually transmitted--thus the OTG will only reveal itself when cylon and human merge into one race/civilization. Thus Baltar sees head six after sex with real six, Kara sees her dad after sex w/Anders. The OTG can already appear to Cylons, but chooses not to most of the time. However, Callie didn't see head people--this rules out the idea, I suppose.

2. Baltar and Kara are not normal colonial humans, but are both some kind of intermediate cylon type being. The OTG manifests as head people after their first resurrection experience. Baltar's occurred way back in the miniseries, as his first self was blown to bits by nukes. Kara's occurred after the events of 'Maelstrom'. Once again, the OTG manifests as head people in cylons at will.

3. Following on an idea in a Dan Simmons novel, the OTG somehow occupies the 'space between' the FTL jumps. The OTG can either show you visions within the jump (Laura) or infect you and appear to you in waking life (Kara, Baltar). Still, this is pretty weak, as it doesn't explain why every one in the fleet doesn't experience head people.

Realistically, I think that the basis of Laura's visions between the jumps will not be addressed during the finale, remaining a loose end. Nor will Kara's Maelstrom vision (and possibly dad as well), and instead will be left as an unexamined side-effect of whatever force makes Kara special.

I'll stand my ground though in demanding a plausible explanation for who and what Baltar's head six is, and why only a select few characters experience head people.

And it's hard not to have it remind you of the Seraphs/Beings of Light. I don't think we'll see benevolent aliens here, though I think the OTG is their equivalent.

BTW, one other vision: Young Adama sees an arm reach out of a resurrection tank, and is shown tortured people, at the end of the first war. Roslin sees other visions too, like ancient Kobol and the serpents.

And the Oracles, they get messages. Oracles told Starbuck's mother of her destiny. Selloi told D'Anna a message from the Cylon god that she said had been relayed to her by the Lords of Kobol. Starbuck visited another Oracle who knew all about her fun with Leoben.

No, you don't have to be a Cylon to receive these messages. If you took that logically, it means they are all Cylons since real humans don't have a mechanism to have visions beamed into our heads.

And he has been for a while now, since it was revealed the final five had them.

The question that comes to my mind, is are they independent beings, or is this just the OTG speaking in these forms? If they are independent beings (and not mystical spirits) what is their seat of physical being? Are they AIs hiding in the ships? Are they a 2nd personality installed into a brain? Are they beings who can transmit FTL into a brain?

Adama's house only came up with his ex-wife. Unless a flashback is missing in the first hour of Daybreak.

"We will get to hear where the changes were made and when and what the thought was behind them."

I am eagerly anticipating this portion of the extras, probably moreso than I am looking forward to the finale. The writer's motivations for such an event (the strike, and how it completely altered their plans) really fascinates me.

Of course, it could just frustrate me if it turns out that their original pre-strike version ultimately turns out to have been a better ending.

Listening to the podcast it sounds like no major ideas changed, just how they got there. Especially since he says some scripts barely changed from inception to screen. For some scripts to not change the story arc itself had to be somewhat untouched. Unless he meant the scripts didn't change from the 2nd revision to the screen, but given the way Ron said it, highly unlikely.

Even if the ending didn't change, the course to get there certainly did, and that's what i'm intrigued by. As i've said, it's not the answers we've gotten that have bothered me, but the way we got them, and the episodes themselves that frustrated me. I would love to hear their original plan for season 4.

The dying leader is Galactica. The vision of 12 serpents were the 12 Cylons. The Cylons were a sign of things to come. Galactica will not make it to the promised land.

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