Another eBay feedback improver


Earlier, I wrote some proposals for improving ebay style feedback, including not having feedback revealed until both have left it. That has some flaws, but the main reason eBay is unlikely to do this is that eBay likes feedback to be positive, they want to convince buyers it is safe to shop there.

So here's an alternate idea to prevent revenge feedback. Revenge feedback is only vaguely in eBay's interests, in that the fear of it keeps feedback positive, but the existence of it adds to the negatives.

To solve this, attempt to detect revenge feedback and print statistics on it. What would be detected is negative feedback left by a seller on a buyer after the buyer has left negative feedback, but not if the buyer left this feedback immediately.

In theory the buyer has just one duty -- to pay promptly. Indeed, since eBay owns PayPal they could also just report about buyers whether they paid promptly with PP and that should be all you need to know. Sellers might want to tag a "troublesome buyer" who has a lot of complaints after getting the item but I think that's in an entirely different class of feedback anyway.

So really, a seller should leave feedback once the buyer has paid, and negative feedback only if the buyer pays slowly, pays falsely or doesn't contact the seller.

Under my system above, if the seller waits to give feedback, in particular waits until after the buyer gives feedback, she's taking a risk that her own negative feedback will get counted in the revenge count. And a high revenge count will scare away deals, deservedly.

More simply, the system could also just count how often the feedback came in the expected order (Seller's first, then Buyer's) and how often the other way around. This would strongly encourage sellers to feedback first. You would see when bidding that a seller always or rarely feedbacks on payment, and again, stay away from those who don't.

Now admittedly, with the fear of revenge feedback gone, buyers would be more honest, and reputations would drop a bit. eBay might still want to avoid this, but with luck it would not be a big change.

Updated thoughts: It may be time for a 3rd party company to begin offering more detailed reputation information. Since eBay has stopped robots it doesn't like, this would have to be on-client software which extracts results of transactions from eBay to another database that a browser add-on (like ShortShip) can display. All the useful information could be stored -- feedback order, possible revenges, feedback based on dollar volume etc. Counting no-feedback transactions is harder and probably requires a blockable spidering operation or some complex shared network. To this one could add more feedback done outside of ebay, including revenge claims and full text stories that eBay doesn't allow in feedback comments.

Useful hint: eBay doesn't allow URLs in feedback, but if you invent a random string you can put 'Search for randomstring' in the feedback comment, and make a web page with that string in it that Google and the rest will find. Then people wanting to know more than 80 characters can learn it. Of course, the other party can also make a web page with that string so searchers see both sides, which is fine. A good non-random string might be something like eBay followed by the item number, as in 'eBay130064299000' -- in fact, if such a method became common you could search for it without even needing it in the feedback.


Actually, the ebay buyer has more than the single to duty to pay promptly. They also have, roughly put, a duty to "be happy with the transaction" if in fact the seller has been clear and honest and delivered what they said or implied they would. This is actually impossible for a seller to determine prior to receiving feedback from the buyer.

It is the seller's job to be "happy with the transaction" after receiving FULL PAYMENT from the buyer. At this point, the seller has made a profit. For that profit, it is his obligation to make the seller happy according to the terms of the agreement. In a few cases, it may be impossible to make the buyer happy. However, that is the RISK you take to make a PROFIT. Give the feedback immediately and trust the community. They will take care of you in the vast majority of cases and you'll be a better businessman for it.

What about when a buyer recieves an item says its not working and sends back the item missing parts then wants 100% payed back. You think this is fair NOT. This is why sellers hold back on there feedback. I just recieved a clock back that was missing parts on the inside and half the case screws were missing buyer said his jeweler took it apart and cant be fixed. Well now i have a clock oh buy the way it still runs and keeps time but is missing parts off the alarm part of it and case screws. I expect him to neg me even thow i paid him back the auction closing price but not the shipping.

Against this type of buyer, negative feedback is not relevant. They will just get neg feedback and get a new buying account. You don't get to pick your buyer based on feedback.

Neg feedback on a buyer only hurts them when they become a seller, and if I'm a dishonest buyer, or seller, I will buy with a different account than I sell.

I get so tired of the whine sellers. I have just made my THIRD sale to a seller who requested that I, as a buyer, post feedback first. Just to test the above assertion that sellers want assurance that buyers are "HAPPY", I have sent them emails saying "THANK YOU! YES! GREAT DEAL! THANKS FOR LISTING!". For the third time now, I have received an email back from these unscrupulous sellers, thanking me for my note, but NONE have given me any feedback. This clearly demonstrates that most people who withhold feedback do so for RETALIATION purposes. They simply can't trust the community. I won't give them any more excuses.

Since ebay has changed the way feedback is handled for sellers; it's been like taking all privilages away from sellers. I've been selling for well over 10 years or better. I've tried it both ways, asking the buyer to leave feedback first and for a period of time I'd automatically leave feedback for fast payments. Throughout both segments; I've encountered buyers being truthfully satisfied, buyers not understanding the way feedback works from ebayers diliberately trying to sabotage your feedback and ratings. And now that we have to consort with DETAILED SELLER RATINGS. It's been a losing battle for sellers. I offer free shipping, and the ratings for shipping and handling charges are suppose to be automatic 5 stars so the buyer cannot rate on it. But then ebay slips in the question "How quickly did the seller ship the item?" Your choices are VERY SLOWLY, SLOWLY, NEITHER SLOWLY NOR QUICKLY, QUICKLY, VERY QUICKY. WTF is this shit? So making sellers believe you have a 1 out of 5 chance of keeping your DSR from going below standard is a complete joke. I make a huge effort to thank my buyer for their purchase, email them when their payment has been accepted, email them when their item ships and email them when their item has been delivered to their front door. I have calculated that nearly 600 buyers have never left me feedback, or even contacted me to let me know they have received their item. There are sellers I know who have experienced buyers trying to scam them by using paypal to get a refund "chargeback". What these buyers don't understand, ratings are suppose to help sellers keep their listing fees and final value fees down based upon their so-called ratings. And they wonder why sellers cannot sell their items cheaper? There are moments when I dont leave feedback right away based upon the buyers feedback for sellers. If they don't leave feedback at all, I usually block them from buying from me again. I think ebay should automatically give sellers positive feedback after 30 days. It's pretty damn obvious that the buyers aren't going to do it. Hell ebay has forced sellers to leave positive feedback despite if the buyer has paid or our only option is not to leave feedback, which defeats the purpose of letting other buyers know that the buyer doesn't pay. Sellers have no protection whatsoever. I could go on and on. It just makes me so mad how buyers are so ignorant to what sellers have to deal with, especially when some of us sell on ebay to pay our rent. I'm a buyer on some occassion, and I always treat my sellers like I want to be treated.

I dont think that would be good either because alot of times i wait for weeks giving people a chance to pay & then as soon as I file an unpaid item dispute against them they leave me bad feedback or threaten me with it before I can leave for them, after they are the ones that havent paid.I dont think that bidders that dont pay should be able to leave feedback at all.I am forced to not leave feedback for deadbeat bidders in fear that by warning others of their non payment they will leave bad feedback for me,so how are we supposed to warn other sellers of bad bidders.

I fully agree i just got two negatives from idiots that failed to pay after i gave them 58 days to do so, they both promised to pay me several different ways on several different occasions yet when after almost two moths of waiting i posted non paying bidder reports to ebay i got negative feedback off them both in which one accuses me of banking his postal order and the other suddenly decided that my description was false. in the first case i never got any payment to bank and in the second he never got the item so how does he know the listing is false he didn't pay so i didn't post it so he has nothing to go on, the problem is even though i've been slandered in feedback by both buyers ebay refuses to remove their comments without a court order!!!, both buyers are now threatening me in e mails with court action for not sending the items out yet both buyers have failed to pay, now ebay sends me a stroppy email saying that my sellerrating is too low because i got two negative together, my 500+ positives count for nothing.
ebays non paying bidder process is a joke i think its best described as a toothless gaurd dog makes a lot of noise but has no effect on the non paying bidder at all. my rant anyway

The person above who commented:

"I get so tired of the whine sellers. I have just made my THIRD sale to a seller who requested that I, as a buyer, post feedback first. Just to test the above assertion that sellers want assurance that buyers are "HAPPY", I have sent them emails saying "THANK YOU! YES! GREAT DEAL! THANKS FOR LISTING!". For the third time now, I have received an email back from these unscrupulous sellers, thanking me for my note, but NONE have given me any feedback. This clearly demonstrates that most people who withhold feedback do so for RETALIATION purposes. They simply can't trust the community. I won't give them any more excuses."

has no clue.

I've bought 5000 items over eBay and sold 50,000. The buyer holds most of the power:

a. feedback (over-emphasized)
b. chargeback

Any seller who does not perform gets charged back. Yes, it is right for the seller to leave feedback after the buyer leaves feedback. I always leave feedback first as a buyer because it is the buyer that closes the transaction by saying "it worked, I won't charge back."

The seller has some powers:
a. refund
b. feedback
c. Block

But other than those three, he is powerless after being paid.


I hear ya about non-paying bidders and the toothlessness of the dispute process. I recently had a non-payer who promised to pay when his payday came around. 2 weeks went by and no payment, no contact. I sent several Emails over the course of 3 weeks. Still no reply. Finally, I filed a non-paying bidder dispute. He was awarded a non-paying bidder strike and I got my fees back. A few days later the non-paying bidder strike was I was told because he requested it to be removed. Ebay sure wouldn't do that to negative feedback I've received.....even if the feedback was not fair or accurate.....ugh!!!!!!

This is an inane debate as FEEDBACK IS VOLUNTARY!!!! There are many unscrupulous buyers on ebay who will go to insane lengths to defraud a seller. Filing false claims, doing chargebacks because they didn't read the detailed description, leaving negative feedback seconds after an auction ends just to leave a negative. Bogus complaints after item is received or complaints in feedback with no contact. I've even seen the feedback system used as a means of contacting a seller, because they didn't understand how to contact the seller or didn't take the time to learn. As many bad sellers that are out there, there are just as many if not more bad buyers

Absolutely if you are sent faulty goods, or nothing at all, contact your seller and try to work something out. A good seller will work with you. If nothing can be resolved, then think about filing with ebay and leaving appropriate feedback. But be certain that the seller has misrepresented the item. If you buy something used---expect it to be used--if it says in the description that there is a stain on the right shoulder, don't expect the USPS to magically make that go away during shipping.

Most of all don't be a FEEDBACK JUNKIE. You are suppose to be on ebay to purchase items- NOT FEEDBACK!!! If you beg for feedback most sellers will not leave it for you. Feedback is not about you per se, it is the opinion of another of the transaction they just had with you for the benefit of other sellers/buyers. It is not a thank you and for sellers to leave fb as soon as the buyer pays shows no one how that buyer may react should something happen such as a lost package, normal shipping delays or damage not anticipated.

Lastly ebay is a VENUE therefore they will not take responsibility for the opinions of others. If you are a considerate person and conduct yourself as you would if you were face to face with the person instead of an anonymous e-mailer, you will find people are a great deal more receptive to calm statements rather than irate ranting and will usually respond in kind with the same treatment. PLAY NICE KIDS!!!

"You are suppose to be on ebay to purchase items- NOT FEEDBACK!!!" ???? What's that supposed to mean? I wouldn't purchase anything on Ebay without the feedback system.

You, sir, are part of the problem. Your comments clearly indicate that you refuse to live by or don't understand the simple principle of treating others the way you would like to be treated. No more need be said.

"You are suppose to be on ebay to purchase items- NOT FEEDBACK!!!" ???? What's that supposed to mean? For fuck's sake! Do you not know that people actually do purchase feedback on eBay?

Why do you think there's so many seller's selling 1 cent ebooks? Do you think that they really earn huge wads of cash? Think about it; 100 ebooks = ONE Whole Dollar! It also = 100 feedback points - fucking simple.

People with the IQ of a french fry piss me off!

At least Mr. French Fry has the vocabulary to express himself without swearing. Have a nice day.

Yes I agree.

It would be more appropriate to express oneself without having to resort to offensive language.

It is easy to find fault in others, not so easy to find it within ;-)

Fucking french fries. They ruin everything.

I agree with you 100%
as soon as the buyer pays, they should get positive feedback
I have a list of nearly 50 sellers and buyers blocked. If I had the names I had stored in my other accounts, I'd have 1000

I agree with the principle of the buyer receiving positive feedback once swift payment has been made - he/she has fulfilled their end of the bargain and should be given due credit. Sellers who email saying please provide feedback once you have received the item and are happy should not in my opinion get any feedback as they are only prepared to aknowledge once they have received cash and positive feedback first. Put it another way - if you went into a shop and bought and item and the seller didn't save thank you for the business but merely handed it over without saying a word would you say thank you to them? Moreover would you go back and shop there again? Thought not.

The difference in this situation is that the buyer receives the goods immediately (in a store) as opposed to on eBay. Buyers should leave feedback first - This is what signifies teh END of the transaction. Once that is done, the seller should also leave feedback.

wrong, and silly. just silly. must be a seller.

Ebay would have very few products for sale if ebay policy forced sellers to leave feedback after payment was recieved.

As a buyer, once you have paid, you don't have much recourse other than feedback, if a seller doesn't send the item, or sends something different than described, or as in my recent experience, a seller refuses a refund until he is given favorable feedback prior to him sending back the money. When I refused, this particular seller told me he was sending the item (a stickley chair) anyway, and that shipping would now be an extra hundred dolllars. He rufuses refund, and I refuse to send additional funds. What can I do, after negotiating has failed? Ebay has no recourse for me, and has suggested that I contact the authorities where this seller lives. I have of course posted negative feedback for this seller, but 80 spaces seems much too brief

I have sold on eBay for over four years. I am just starting my third business and my first business was on eBay alone. I have received nearly 4000 feedbacks to date, and maintained a 100% positive rating. I agree and disagree with various statements others have made, but I just want to say that it is important to realize that it is not a seller's duty to leave feedback for a buyer as soon as they pay - there simply IS MORE to a buyer's end of the bargain, as others have said (how they respond to various shipping issues, for example). It should be said that eBay may be a hobby or small part of someone's day as a buyer, but it is a business and big part of the life of someone like me, and therefore, maintaining a high feedback rating can be very important. There are many buyers out there (a small percentage but still pletny) that will take advantage if you have left feedback and they haven't; especially with someone like me. You don't maintain a feedback rating like mine by just being "fair"; you maintain it by bending over backwards, willingly taking the short end of the stick, and taking the blame when someone else is simply ignorant about how things work. That being the situation, you are handing over way more power than you have to when you leave feedback for a buyer before they leave it for you. That is usually fine, assuming that the buyer is a good, rational person who understands what is "reasonable" in the world of online auctions. However, there are buyers that will hold things over your head and leave you a neutral of negative feedback if you don't do exactly what they want, regardless of the fact that you may have done everything and more that should be expected. Some buyers don't care about their feeeback, but most do, and as such I can prevent some unscrupulous buyers from taking advantage of my concern about maintaining my feedback by withholding feedback until they have left it for me.

My friend, you take on risk when you enter business. If you are unwilling to stick your neck out and give buyers what they deserve (positive feedback) for paying you IN FULL before receiving anything, then you are not among the most honorable in the Ebay community. I have done business with many such exemplary sellers. Their feedback ratings are 99%+

You make some excellent points regarding feedback from unscrupulous buyers. There are many horrible sellers out there as well, but as a seller with 2400+ power seller sales, and until recently, a 100% rating, I'll offer my experience from a seller's viewpoint.

There are only two MAIN reasons people shop on eBay: The first is to get a deal below the market value of an item. This is essentially a buyer who is seeking a "garage sale" price, which is perfectly acceptable. The second is to obtain a rare on unusual item, regardless of price. Again, perfectly fine.

There are other buyers: Shopoholics; or people who want to kick a dog, but don't own a dog; or those who just want to argue; or the unfortunates who are literally mentally ill and need the excitement.

The last three above are, thankfully rare.

I sell mostly clothing, and some camera equipment. On the clothing, I allow the buyers a short 24 hours to inspect and complain. The short period is for the following reasons: I don't want to "rent" clothes. I don't want to sell a tux and then get it back after they've worn it to the event. Likewise, I don't want to get it back after they've had it altered, damaged by a dry-cleaner, or let their cat use it for a scratching post. On cameras, I allow 7 days to conduct a film test. On lenses, I allow three days to inspect. Here's what I've seen regarding normal buyers who complain:

1. They have a legitimate complaint regarding the discription. I missed a pinhole on a jacket, or I mis-measured the item. In these cases, I allow a return, and pay the shipping both ways.

2. Buyers' remorse. They jumped in at the last minute and out-bid several legitimate buyers and then simply change their minds. Instead of simply saying: "I was over-zealous, and went crazy on the bidding," they want to make their problem my problem. I give a clearly defined period to inspect these items, after which the sale is final. In the 1% of problems I've had over the years there are tell-tale signs:

The first is: Multiple complaints. It's never just one thing, it is a multitude of seller crimes. "It smells bad; it's the wrong size; It's counterfeit."

Postage is an issue on eBay, since many items cost more to ship than they actually cost. I simply agree to a return with the proviso that upon a re-measure or verification of damage, I will refund all costs including postage if I made an error. However, I won't refund the postage if I am not at fault. Normal people who realize that their desire to wear the same size they wore in 1985 no longer applies, and know that their complaint is an excuse rather than a genuine reason for return, will accept this. I lay a tape measure across the garment, send pictures, and the dispute is closed with a refund, sans shipping.

The "smell" complainer is a bit more complicated. I had one complaint on a 50-year-old camera. Its odor was so horrific that the metal camera body simply reeked, and even after washing it and spraying it with Fabrize, she became physically ill by touching it. I took it back and resold it with no problem. I refunded all costs to avoid the negative, just to get rid of her. She left a glowing positive - probably because the others she had done this to told her to stuff it. I can only surmise this, since in the absence of her seller feedback, I had no way of determining if she was a serial complainer, or just a nut, or both.

The few "clothing smell" complainers were even easier to sort out.

A normal person will agree to a dry-cleaning at the seller's expense and "wait and see" if that solves the problem.

The scammers will respond that they "know that this will never come out, because it's so vile" and want an immediate refund.

I had one who said that the package was left on his porch, and it was so nasty, that when he brought it into his house, it made his residence uninhabitable. This was BEFORE he opened the box. Remarkably, he didn't want a refund - he wanted attention. After two months of emails between myself and his imaginary secretary, we agreed on a $20 refund - something I would have gladly given on Day 1.

Another, who was in the "kick the dog" category, waited a month to decide that a 25-year-old vintage jacket was "a bit musty." I asked why he waited a month to complain, he replied: "I hung it in the closet and hoped it would air out." It sold for $50 - about a third of what it should have brought. I jumped at the chance to get it back, offering round-trip shipping and a full refund, or a free dry-cleaning, fervently hoping he would take the former.

He waited several days, and then accepted the dry-cleaning option, and then left me a neutral. When I enquired as to why he did that, he said: "The musty smell made the purchase a negative experience, but since you paid for the cleaning, that made it a neutral." He had 24-hours to decide the item was defective.

This kind of stuff, in a way, makes eBay fun, since it opens one up to a whole new area of human nature to study and wonder about.

However, I had a recent complaint I could not stomach, in view of the current economic situation.

I listed a rare, 25-year-old camera lens with a starting bid of $50. When it got to $70, with several high-feed-back collectors, another buyer jumped in. He had a feedback record of 5 buys in the last 2 1/2 years. He rolled the bid up to $85, and won. He started exhibiting Buyers' Remorse before he even got it, asking whether he saw "lint" on the lens in the picture.

I gave 72 hours from the time of USPS delivery to inspect. This buyer received the item on Monday. On Friday - 2 days after the inspection period expired - he sent an email which contained the "3-rule" complaint: I said the item was "Clean, and the optics were blemish-free, to the naked eye." (Note that anything you can't see on a lens - dust, light scratches, dirt - will not be visible on a photo taken with the lens).

His complaint: The 99-cent lens caps on the camera were "dirty" (not true, and rediculous anyway) therefore my claim that the item was "clean" was a misrepresentation. he also said that he found light "scratches" on the barrel of this lens, so it wasn't "clean" as described. Finally, he said that the lens was "chipped."

In fact, I acquired this as part of a group of equipment, and, in the hope of making a killing on it, I paid a camera expert to inspect, photograph it, and write the descriptions before listing it. They found some minor issues with the camera body and one of the lenses, and prounounced the other items - including this one - "pristine" by their standards.

I eschewed "pristeen" in favor of "clean" and listed this item as such.

After five days, the buyer said the lens caps were "dirty" and therefore the item was not "clean." He also said the lens was "scratched." he said it was worth "less than half of what I paid" and asked for "suggestions" as to what we might do about that. No request for a return.

I felt he had outbid the real buyers and was looking for a discount. I told him that the item was as described, and in any case, the sale was final after three days.

He left me a negative, describing me as a scammer who wanted to palm off his "trash" on others.

He opened a Paypal dispute, won, and sent the item back. The item was perfect, despite his poor packing. Note: Paypal told me that the buyer always wins.

Moral of the story: I am now going to take anything back for any reason, just to avoid the hassle. If I find I can't make a profit doing that, I'll quit. A sellers, we can complain all we want, but it will do no good. Suck it up, or move on.

I wanted to add that my ebay name is "Seaamigo" so that anyone who wants to see my ratings can do so. Anonymous bitching is meaningless if it can't be verified as to reputation. I also want to add that paypal told me that the seller always loses any "Significantly Not as Described (SNAD)" dispute, regardless, since they have no way to verify the information submitted by either party. My advice is to settle with the buyer and avoid the NEG. However: You can't make that a condition of settlement under ebay rules, since that would be "feedback extortion." Just kiss up and hope for the best.

I believe that much of the "great" feedback on e-Bay is the result of buyers being too intimidated to tell the truth. I recently "won" an item on eBay described as NIB (new in box) for which I paid immediately via PayPal. Four days later, I sent a polite e-mail via eBay and directly to the Seller asking when the item was likely to ship so that I could make sure we would be in town. I received no reply. Six days after payment, I received an e-mail from PayPal saying that the Seller had finally printed a label - according to USPS, the item finally shipped 11 days after payment. When the item was finally received, I found that Seller had not properly packed the item for shipping; a label had been slapped on the side of the "decorative" box in which the mfg. had placed the pan and glass lid. The box didn't hold up and was severely damaged during shipping. When faced with leaving feedback, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and went with neutral, but I did note that he didn't respond to my e-mails and that packaging for shipment was poor. He proceeded to leave NEGATIVE feedback for me with the following: "SPITEFUL and inaccurate feedback! Be careful!!! No technological proficiency?" I'll never take feedback seriously again; Sellers like this one are intimidating Buyers. I paid immediately, tried to communicate with Seller, and even went easy on him by leaving Neutral feedback; for this I got a NEGATIVE feedback on my eBay "record". This was my first bad experience with an eBay Seller, but he was really a doozy.

I was recently the victim of revenge feedback (blackmail really), and I agree with Brad's suggestion regarding ways to track underserved feedback.

I bought a computer monitor from a Power Seller. It arrived a month later. The monitor worked fine for a couple of days but then refused to turn on. I emailed the seller and requested a partial refund-- he refused, saying that my item did not meet the terms of his refund policy, but that he would send me a new monitor. I didn't really want to wait another month for a monitor, but I agreed since my other option was to simply let the Power Seller keep my $60. A month after that communication, I still did not have a monitor. I emailed the seller to ask if the item had been shipped. I waited a few days, got no response, and emailed again. Again, I waited for a response-- didn't get one. Finally, after going two months without my computer, I decided to just leave the following negative feedback and buy a monitor elsewhere: "Slow to ship, uncommunicative, & didn't send prmisied replacement 4 bad product." Fair enough, right? A couple of days later, seller leaves me bad feedback (the first I've ever gotten after 70 transactions). The feedback isn't even feedback. He only states: "Please contact us to get this NEG removed. Did not receive emails or calls." Then he wants me to consent to a mutual feedback withdrawal. I refused b/c I felt that he tarnished my profile in order to force me into doing business w/ him.

I was furious. How dare he tarnish my profile after I did all the good buyer things?! I paid immediately, gave him plenty of time to get his act together, and contacted him twice before leaving any negative feedback.

My next course of action was to send eBay a very nice letter stating that I thought they should look into his business practices as I thought what he did was unethical. After reading his 41 negs, numerous neutrals, and about 15 mutually withdrawns, I realized that he'd done to other customers what he did to me. eBay sent me an automated response directing me to Square Trade. Square Trade said they couldn't do anything for me unless I paid them a $30 fee.

In short, this seller is still at large and eBay did nothing to stop him. At what store do you have to pay a $30 fee to get an issue resolved? Only eBay!

Anyway, I just wanted to vent. Sellers, I understand what you have to put up with (I work in retail). I agree with Anonymous when he says, "You don't maintain a feedback rating like mine by just being 'fair'; you maintain it by bending over backwards...", but sometimes customers bend over backwards too.

It is the first thing I check when deciding whether to buy from a seller or not and I always read comments, specially negative and neutral ones. More often than not, they are just daft or ignorant! I like to be left positive feedback from buyers when the transaction is complete and they are satisfied, then I leave feedback for them. That makes sense to me. It does get on my nevers when a seller/buyer with hundreds of feeback has left all of 2 for others! Even though feeback is voluntary, it's just common decency to reciprocate!

Other sellers are alwayus trying to get me to leave feedback first, which is b*llsh*t. In the real world (storefront), the seller should always thank the customer first and then the customer can tell everyone else what they think of the seller. I am both a regular seller and buyer on eBay and I once made the mistake of leaving deserved negative feedback about a seller before they left me feedback. The result was receiving my first ever negative feedback from the seller. His comment was essentially calling me a liar. The seller sold me used merch advertised as "new, unopened, in-box".

I bought from a seller that was selling a "legitimate jersey". His listing price was at $30.00 for bidding. The buy it now was at $130.00. I bid for $30 and won at that price. I then immediately paid him. Afterwards he sent me a message stating that he wouldn't accept business from buyers with less than 10 feedbacks(a term he did not mention in the auction). After that he relisted the item at an opening price of $50 with a buy it now of $100 and refused to refund me. I checked his feedback to find that after the auction was over he had left a negative to another seller about how a jersey he had purchased from him was a fake. After checking the auction I found that it was the same exact jersey he was selling. It took me going through paypal to get my money back. E-bay refused to help me. He did not leave feedback for me, and I did not leave it for him. But I understand how anyone feels who has dealt with a bad seller.

In a situaution in which someone has to go first, it should be the first person to complete their side of the bargain who is given the first feedback.

In other words a buyer who pays quickly and in full should not be put on hold just in case he gives the "wrong" response.

Now this is some great feeback...


God help us all if there are too many of these type of minds on the Ebay system. And, if at all you hold a day job, don't give it up, because you will never make it big as a comedian.

The biggest reason that sellers must give feedback first? 1) They are making the transaction to make a profit. They are beholden to the customer to deliver once the money changes hands. 2) I've never received one item on ebay without FIRST paying for it. Has the seller fulfilled his total commitment once he pays in full? ABSOLUTELY, YES. He should receive positive feedback immediately. Might he subsequently leave negative? Yes, this is the RISK the seller takes to make a profit.

The PROBLEM is the seller who won't leave positive feedback until he sees it from the buyer. The reality of business is RISK for PROFIT. Nothing wrong with that. But the seller must be willing to take that risk.

Did you know that sellers can re-invent themselves with another handle any time they get a couple of negative feedbacks on eBay. Additionally, the whole system is worthless because of the fact that buyers without backbone are too afraid of retaliation to give honest feedback, and if some vindictive person gives you negative feedback in return for their not fulfilling their end of the bargain, it will turn off a few buyers/sellers.

Feedback is "worthless"?? Tell that to execs at Ebay, the shareholders who have made MILLION$ with Ebay stock, and the MILLIONS of people who use the feedback forum every day. Your comment is worthless.

Both myself and my daughter pay promptly for ebay goods, generally using the Paypal facility if available.

We have both noticed the insiduous practise of sellers not responding to prompt payments by leaving postive feedback on receipt of payment.

We no longer leave feedback at all in these cases, even if the goods are ok.

I have tried to alert/complain about this to EBay, endorsing the suggestion of a blind/simultaneous feedback system - but receive neutral responses from them.

I think that the word is out on this problem and that the feedback system will become redundant/obsolete if it it not modified.

I wish that we lived in a perfect world where everyone behaved responsibly and respectfully.

I wish that I could leave feedback on every transaction, immediately, and not have the other party take advantage of that.

I wish that every seller was honest about everything they sold.

I wish that every buyer was reasonable and actually read the auction details.

... but those are just wishes and they will never be our reality. It's human nature.

The reality is that there are bad sellers and bad buyers, because there are quite a few bad people out there. There is no one (or even two) pat answers to these issues and there never will be.

In any system where people try to get as much as they can for as little as possible, greed issues will always exist.

No matter what system is put in place, humans will find ways around it. Does that mean they should stop trying to make it better...? No, of course not. Just don't expect these issues to go away.

I buy and sell on eBay. The primary rule I follow is the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. This includes trying to resolve issues privately rather than through the feedback system.

When I sell, I leave feedback for a fast- or timely paying buyer as soon as s/he pays me (except when I suspect the buyer may be trouble). Then I do my best to provide excellent service. I view the immediate feedback as a feel-good inducement for the buyer to leave me positive feedback, which I'm already confident I will deserve. I also like to get the feedback out of the way so it's off my List of Things to Do.

When I buy, I pay very quickly -- usually within minutes after end of auction. I am always annoyed by the seller who waits until I post feedback first. My perception of such a seller is that s/he is either stingy at best or potentially retaliatory at worst. Nevertheless, if the seller provides good or excellent service, I leave positive feedback. But I must admit I am always reluctant to leave neutral or negative feedback, and even if such feedback is well-deserved, I usually leave no feedback rather than risking retaliation. (I have seen buyers who post mere neutral feedback receive negative feedback in retaliation.)

I do like the idea of having a double-blind feedback system. I have no doubt there are many eBay sellers who have overinflated feedback ratings due to real or perceived fear of retaliation.

I use the service at as it automates my feedback and is a bit of a time saver - leaving randomly selected comments, non-positive feedback notifications, selective comment leaving (for buyers and sellers), etc.

Its basically free now too, worth a try if you a 'leave them last' kinda feedback guy and want to do it automatically.

I just purchased an item from A1MusicSupply on Ebay. He has sold THOUSANDS of items and a good portion of the feedback mention slow shipping. Those that flagged the comment as negative or neutral were flamed by him with a comment like "rude ebayer, seller's beware". I'm now over two weeks into my transaction and have not received my item. I'm now foreced to deal with PayPal, as this douche-bag seller won't respond to my emails.

I've contacted several of the buyers of past transactions and nobody had nice things to say about this seller.

Its disturbing to me that so many people have left a Positive feedback flag while at the same time saying how the shipments were unusually slow. I suppose the buyers were happy just to have received the item. Unfortunately, I purchased my item (paid within minutes of auction close as I ALWAYS do) before reading his feedback detail which was summarized as 99% positive on the auction screen.

I'm considering paying the $30, or whatever it costs, to file a claim with Square Trade in the hopes that it will somehow get this guy banned from ebay. Though I don't beleive that is the purpose of Square Trade.

I'd also like to get some sort of "Ebay class action" against this guy by contacting all the people he has wronged, though from what I've read here and elsewhere, it seems Ebay doesn't care.

I'm also concerned about leaving negative feedback for this guy, as his history is to flame the buyer who leaves anything but positive feedback. I wish there was some other way to alert people to the potential hazards of purchasing from this guy.

Blogger's note: I have deleted this posting, which was a long report about a bad experience with a particular ebay seller and a copy of their feedback. I've left this stub so you know I did it. I prefer these threads remain mostly about philosophy of auctions, not complaints about specific parties, except as illustration of philosophical points.

FB is a debate on ebay that has long raged regarding
"Who should leave FB first"?

FB is a marvelous tool to use for improving your business procedures if used correctly.

Sellers should only have 5 days to leave a FB if they want to for the buyer, after that tough tittys. Buyers should be allowed 45 days at most if they desire to.Before I buy I see who leaves the first FB and if it isn't the seller then they lost my bussiness.

I like your idea. It would force the seller to go first, just as the buyer is forced to go first with a payment transaction. Ebay should listen to this one. With regard to checking FB, I check the new "Left for Others" column. If it's a big seller, the only NEG should be for non-payment. If a seller is leaving NEG for retaliation, you will see it fast in this column.

I agree with the above response. The buyer has the commitment to pay promptly to the seller in order for the product/s to then be delivered. If the buyer has paid promptly then feedback from the seller should not be a problem, and the quicker the payment the better the feedback should be. Then it is the buyers commitment to leave feedback after goods are received. But, by all means if there is something you are not happy about with product, go back and fully re-read the description before leaving negative feedback, and make sure you haven't overlooked something before placing a bid in the first place. Then once you're satisfied that you have not overlooked anything contact the seller before leaving feedback. If the seller is obliging to help you in a proper professional manner then there should be no need for a negative feedback. However, I do not believe that in a situation with me just recently, that a seller should have the power to blackmail the buyer into leaving them a positive feedback before they will refund your money, because I'm still waiting for my refund even though I kept within my agreement. Now, I'm beginning to wonder if the records were broken before being sent, as the photos in the description were only the record covers. And, it is very easy to blame the poor person in the middle (the postman) isn't it?

After having been an ebay buyer and seller for the past 6 years I've drawn a few conclusions. Number one - Ebay lets both the buyer and seller both leave feedback. only lets the buyer leave feedback. Without fear of retaliation many buyers do leave negative feedback. But most of this negative feedback is valid. On the rip-off sellers are easily identified because of their numerous negative feedbacks. Conversely the good sellers are also just as easily identified on by their lack of negative feedbacks and their high percent of positive feedbacks.

So why does Ebay allow both seller and buyer feedbacks. The answer is simple. Profits for Ebay. Most (not all) buyers are afraid of retaliation feedback. In effect they are being forced into not leaving negative feedback by Ebay itself. So they try and work out the problems with the seller. For example, unbelievably late shipping, item not even shipped, non-working items, wrong items, broken items, sellers not returning emails and on and on. I personally have experienced all of the problems I just listed.

What would happen if Ebay did not allow sellers to leave feedback like The amount of negative feedback from buyers would increase greatly (to put it mildly). The rip-off sellers would be quickly and easily identified by the numerous negative feedback they receive. Buyers would be able to really see how bad these sellers are. These bad sellers would no longer be able to operate on Ebay, because buyers would avoid them at all costs. Ebay profits would take a huge hit and Ebay would lose money.

As the wise sage once said "It's all about profits, my friend"

I think this is a great Idea and would work for everyone. If buyers left neg. with no reason Ebay should investigate and have it removed. Also sellers should only be able to comment on feedback left for them...

As a longtime seller on ebay (since 2001) I have found that buyers whom you leave feedback for immediately, can and often do threaten you with a negative if they are:
1) New to ebay and don't understand how it works.
2) They do not read the terms of the auction fully.
3) They feel they are not responsible for buying an incorrect item or the item they buy is not perfect even when stated its not.
4) They are angry at all sellers for whatever reason.
5) They wish to deal outside the ebay e-mail system after the auction is closed.
This is not to say the buyer is always at fault. There are many circumstances which are so variable, that we couldn't possibly discuss them all here, but that is life.
Just be careful and reasonable when it comes to ebay dealings and you'll have plenty of success....

There are so many reasons for us (the seller) to leave our feedbacks last and you have covered most of them..WTG...I am with you all the way. Yes the newbies are scary as they will just drop what they want to say in the feedback thinking thats what there sposed to do...I try to guide them by saying if you say that to some sellers they will leave you a neg and suggest that they email the seller with any grievences they might have on their item before they leave their next feedback and they always come back and thank me...Us sellers are also the Teachers and we have to remember that.. Stay Cool..

All your "reasons to leave feedback first" represent the RISK you take to be in business. I'm certain I would enjoy and profit from a transaction with either of you. But neither of you would receive feedback from me. I have completely written off sellers who won't go first after I pay them IN FULL without receiving anything. It's a self-righteous cover for retaliation.

Hi there, I just want to say that I am a seller and I feel more comfortable leaving my feedbacks last, I have a system that works great for me where I take the time each night to review my feedbacks that I have been left for the day and leave each purchaser an individual feedback (most are excellent) to how they are sometimes I must admit they are more than deservant I must say but mostly taking in the fact that if they paid super fast or it took a couple of days to receive payment by direct deposit..all the same they have made a prompt payment and I will always recognise that, I also have quite alot of newcomers to ebay and I like to guide them with what their feedbacks say as some sellers would drop them a neg feedback as when a postal problem happens (like they say item was received ok but the corner of the box was crushed) yeah right I jumped on it before I sent it(I wrap my postage to the best of my capability along side putting it in a steel box)and I will say that my feedback does justify this from the great packaging comments I have received... but we all know well and truly how the postal service can treat items at times and that is beyond our control no matter how good we package...So I will email them and let them know that they should have contacted me by email and not to air their greivances using the feedback system for something that was out of my control as I am always willing to help if there has been a problem with their item , so far I have had them come back to me and appolgise for leaving the feedback and they realise that they should have contacted me first about it, So fellow sellers a little professionalism in the way we treat our feedbacks will go along way, I still end up leaving them a POS...Think about it!!! Sometimes we have to play mind games but it pays off...Good Luck!

I buy and sell on ebay and ran a storefront business for several years. The seller is morally responsible to leave feeback first. Period. All these excuses to justify this crying about "new buyers" etc. are the tactics of a poor business philosophy. You who advocate that, want to "have your cake and eat it too". It is childish at best and dishonest at it's worst. The buyers responsibility is to pay in full and promptly. It is then the sellers responsibility to acknowledge that payment and then provide the product as advertized and deliver it on a timely basis. The buyer takes the risk to send money without receiving the product. It's only fair that the seller leave the feedback and let his skill as a honest seller EARN (that's right EARN. Is that a strange concept for you whiners?) a positive feedback.

As it has been said previously, you make the profit, you take the risk. That is basis of capitalism and those who want to turn that on it's ear are advocating a sort of dictatorship. Tsk, tsk, tsk! Shame on you!

PS, You sellers, please leave your Ebay seller name so I know to avoid you.

Best comment on this page. Succint. To the point. Right on target. I am to the point now where I send a polite note to sellers who ask me to post feedback first. I thank them for their product and excellent service. I send them a second note when I receive the product, telling them I am very satisfied. Then I tell them that if they want me to post feedback (and it WILL be positive), that they most post it first, since I paid them. I have NOT ONCE heard from or received feedback from a single seller with whom I have used this tactic. Thanks again for the posting.

I also think that sellers should leave feedback as soon as the buyer has paid, so I've come up with a "policy" which individuals can adopt personally to help address this, and which I hope will catch on. What it basically consists of is a public declaration of the following:

  • As a seller, you promise to leave feedback as soon as the buyer has paid. What's in it for you is that you can give your buyers extra confidence in you compared to in sellers who delay in giving feedback.
  • As a buyer, you won't give positive feedback to sellers who try to insist on you leaving feedback first. This is to reduce the incentive for sellers to delay in giving feedback.

Please have a look at the full version as it appears on my "about me" page (link below), and if you agree with it, please copy it to your own "about me" page. Many thanks.

Just another thought -- a couple of things that eBay could do:

  • As they know the timing of PayPal payments for an item, they could include as part of the "view feedback member left" pages an indication of the average time elapsed from payment to when the seller leaves feedback, for example:
    • There were 2305 transactions in which this user was the seller and the buyer paid through PayPal. Of these, this seller left feedback for the buyer an average of 1 day 13 hours after the time of payment.

    Buyers could then decide whether to avoid sellers who show a long delay.

  • In every case where a negative or neutral feedback is shown which is dated after a negative or neutral feedback by the other party on the same item, the corresponding feedback message should be shown alongside it. Here's an example -- I can't format it very prettily here but you get the idea:
    • NEGATIVE "This ebayer is nothing but trouble". Left by seller dodgy_ebayer_000. Item 1234567890. 12:10 Jan 1 2006
      • Note: this feedback was left after user left the following feedback for seller on this transaction:
      • NEGATIVE "Paid promptly. Two months later, goods have never arrived. Ignoring emails." 12:00 Jan 1 2006

    This makes it much easier for anyone reading retaliatory feedback to dismiss it as such. NB this system should be applied just the same for retaliatory feedback by buyers.

What I think ebay should do is appoint 'mediators' These could be sellers over say 500 feedback with all positives and good records.

In return for mediating (removing retalitory feedback and generally looking after low level disputes, not including fraud or more serious cases)

These sellers get discounts on their ebay listings, it would be in the mediators interest as they would have a symbol by their name, which would be like an extra boost to potential buyers and would mean that high volume sellers get discounted listing fee's.

It would also mean that buyers and sellers would have 'community leaders' who could help with advice on situations.


Seems that nobody ever addresses neutral feedback. I'm not a heavy ebay user, but every time I use it the transactions are pretty much what I expect - I pay, whatever I bought shows up in a few days. That's not a positive experience in my opinion, that's just how things are supposed to work. Nobody ever leaves neutral feedback though. And, I've heard that doing so leads to retaliatory negative feedback.

Leads me to think the system is broke.

Feedback inflation is the biggest problem on eBay other than sellers that are basically just scam artists. Everyone tries to protect their feedback and maintain a 100% rating to the point of geting screwed by buyers, screwed by sellers and screwed by eBay. eBay doesn't care about feedback. They figure sellers with enough negatives will eventually either go out of business or simply rename themselves, and in the meantime eBay, and their other company PayPal, will happily collect their fees. Smart eBayer's set up one account for selling and a second account for buying, so that the inevitable negative on one doesn't affect the other.
Buyers have the upper hand, without a doubt. I've bought and sold on eBay in the past, and just selling a handful of items showed me that I will never sell on eBay again. I didn't get hosed on any of my selling transactions, however I was at the mercy of all my buyers until the day they left positive feedback. I didn't like that, and I certainly didn't like the exorbitant fees charged by both eBay and by PayPal. Since then I've left negative feedback for truely crappy sellers, and have recieved retaliatory negatives in return. Do I obsess about my feedback score? No. If I want to buy something on eBay I usually look for Buy It Now items, which are a good deal already in my opinion, and the seller has no chance to "filter me out" if he chooses to believe the seller who screws me rather than believe I may have been the one shafted. If they want to cancel the transaction because I have a 99% rating, I don't care. I'll simply choose one of the other 1,000 sellers with the same item. If my rating ever dropped into the abysmmal level, I'd take a cue from shady sellers and simply start over again with a new account.
The one thing I REFUSE to do is get shafted by a buyer or a seller and worry about my feedback rating. If they deserve a negative they're going to get one, and I fully expect them to recriprocate whether I deserve it or not. If everyone did this, you would see feedback ratings that were a lot more realistic than they currently are. When I see a seller with over 200 transactions and a 100% positive rating, I know that particular seller is a sucker who will do whatever it takes to protect his precious feedback rating. Never in the history of trade has anyone ever made 200 positive transactions in a row, there are too many psychos, scam artists and idiots out there for that to happen.
Quit worrying about your precious feedback rating. Sellers and buyers alike have the chance to respond to all feedback, positive or negative, and any reasonable person can determine after reading just a couple of feedback pages whether or not they want to deal with a particular vendor or buyer. Always consider a feedback "score" as being inflated. And remember that you can't go to WalMart 100 times and have 100 positive transactions; you're going to have the checker that can't scan an item correctly, the stocker who puts what you want 15 feet out of reach, the associate who won't help you find something, a price tag missing, an item that doesn't work, huge lines at the register and the jerk who closes the register to go on break after you've been waiting in line 20 minutes. Why expect anything better at eBay?

I don't follow the logic. If a seller with 100% rating will bend over backwards to preserve that rating, why is that a bad thing for a buyer? He may be a "sucker" to do that but he sure seems like a good person to buy from for exactly that reason.

My view is that the true difference between vendors (in ebay and the rest of the world) is how they deal with their mistakes. If they gladly fix mistakes, you know they don't have them very often, and thus they are a good place to buy stuff. If they fight over fixing mistakes, it means they have margins that are too thin or have too many mistakes.

It's not that nobody makes mistakes, everybody does. What I care about is how often it happens and how they handle it. A seller who makes a mistake and then fixes it properly earns a positive feedback from me or at worst a neutral if the mistake was dreadful or the fix only partial. That keeps them with 100% feedback.

However, on eBay auctions, you can't control your margin quite as easily as in traditional pricing or buy-it-now, which does make it harder to keep margins high enough to afford to correct mistakes.

The counter to that is that people do bid higher with high-reputation sellers. Perhaps some academics have done a study on commodity items to see just how much reputation points are worth, dollar-wise.

Now I'm the one missing the logic. Sure, a seller who will do anything it takes to preserve a 100% positive feedback rating is a GREAT place to buy from. But it can't be a great position to sell from. My logic was that this poor "sucker" is a target for anyone who wants to bid and pay, then claim non-reciept or that the merchandise is significantly different than described. Knowing ahead of time that the seller is going to do whatever it takes to preserve his 100% positive feedback rating, regardless of the actual outcome of the transaction, would seem sure to attract buyers with evil intentions. If a certain transaction turns out to be a living hell for this seller, costing him duplicate merchandise or refund money, it may be worth it for him to do whatever it takes to coax a positive feedback from his buyer, but in the end is that really a positive transaction? The odds of receiving his positive feedback while being able to return a negative to the buyer are almost nil, so the whole deal goes down in the record books as a positive. That's inflated feedback.

I agree that a seller who makes a mistake and corrects it certainly deserves positive feedback, and I gladly give it. But dreadful mistakes and only partial fixes? I'm sure we all have our own definitions of positive, neutral and negative, but in my book dreadful mistakes and partial fixes are not neutral, they're negative. I don't take it upon myself to preserve their 100% feedback, if they really deserved it they would fix their dreadful mistakes and make complete fixes. At BEST they would earn a neutral from me, not at worst a neutral.

What I said is I might give a neutral for a dreadful (unfixable) mistake that they tried hard to fix, or a lesser mistake that was only partly fixed. Fully fixing gets positive feedback. However, sometimes a mistake is so bad you can't fix it. For example, if I needed an item for a certain deadline, and said so, and missed the deadline because a bad item was sent, a refund won't help me much.

I don't know if there are a lot of deliberately evil buyers out there. There are certainly picky buyers and troublesome buyers but most buyers with positive reputations really do want to buy. (Buyers with low single digit reputations may be scammers, I won't sell a large ticket item to them.)

As I blogged earlier, it appears that for the Playstation 3, many people bidding created new accounts just to bid for the PS3. They they placed super high bids to be sure to win and just never paid if they didn't like the price -- screwing the sellers since there was only one day of peak prices for PS3s, and listing again was no consolation.

Of course if eBay allowed sellers to specify they won't take bids from low-rep buyers, too many of them would do that, which is bad for eBay because it scares new customers away -- so we won't see that.

How to fix, the system that fails miserably.

1. All Ebay clients must pay a yearly fee of say $25.00 U.S. to an Ebay fair trade board, which is also the holding company for transactions on Ebay.
2. First at the end of the auction the winning bidder pays his money to an Ebay buyers account within 3 business days, NOT THE SELLER into an Ebay holding account. The seller is then notified of this.
3. The seller then has three days to ship the item and must give Ebay a valid tracking #, proof of shipping insurance & proof of the shipping cost ( In other words this would eliminate inflated shipping costs, and the excuse damaged in transit from both sides and would pay for this damage should it occur) This also means now some of the sellers money is involved in the transaction for the shipping cost, for which he will be reimbursed from the Ebay Holding account upon the above proof.
4. The courier must notify the buyer of the time of delivery within a five hour window.
5. The buyer must sign for the package upon delivery, and note if any damage is seen due to transit at that time. , The buyer has the right to refuse delivery that appears damaged due to transit, and must notify Ebay as well that the item is back in the hands of the courier. Courier and Ebay fair trade decide the next step. Funds from the buyer, and the costs incurred by the seller are returned to each party out of the Ebay fair trade fund and holding company. No feedback is left other then ( item damaged in transit no sale )
6. The buyer has 3 business days to open and inspect item at which time he/she must notify Ebay if the item is acceptable or has problems.
7. If the item is accepted as ok by the buyer, they must notify Ebay to release all the funds and costs of shipping to the seller by this time and both parties receive a positive feedback mark and a transaction number increase.
8. If the buyer does not notify Ebay by the end of the 3rd day the funds will be released automatically to the seller on the fourth day with the seller receiving a positive feedback and the buyer receiving a negative feedback for failure to communicate and both receive a transaction number increase.
9. During the buyers 3 day inspection period the buyer may notify Ebay holding the item is not as described or is broken or is unsatisfied, at which time the funds to the seller are frozen. There is a then a three business day allowance for the buyer and seller to come to some sort of agreement to fix the problem/s.
10. If the seller and the buyer come to an agreement to fix the problem, then both parties must notify Ebay Holding of the solution, and Ebay holding decides if the terms are acceptable and releases all the incurred funds to the seller upon the terms being met. Both parties receive a positive feedback score and both receive a transaction number increase.

Now we just got rid of 90% of the headaches right here over shipping time.
Now when the buyer is satisfied and the seller money changes hands And Ebay post Positive Transaction for both parties. Not the buyer or the seller! NOW YOU HAVE HONEST & TRUE FEEDBACK SYSTEM

Now if the item is found to be damaged or misrepresented during the 3 business day inspection period time the following occurs.

1. The money is not released to the seller.
2. The buyer must take pictures of the item, its damages or misrepresentation and email them along with a letter of explanation to the Ebay Fair Trade board, The seller must also send their pictures of the item to Ebay Fair Trade and their side of the story. Ebay Fair Trade makes the final decision on the matter as to the distribution of funds and what is to be done with the item, and if it is to be shipped back to the seller. Ebay Fair Trade then decides fault and posts the feedback score as it believes to be fair. And a transaction increase to each party
3. Ebay at this time has the right to assign a third party arbitrator to deal with both parties at this time if they see fit. The decision of the arbitrator will decide the feedback posting for each party and how the funds involved will be dealt with along with any fees incurred in the arbitration.
Feedback this way would be a valid way of judging both a seller’s reputation and a buyer’s also. No pointing of fingers, no Retaliatory, no phony positives, no phony sellers, no deadbeat buyers, HEAVEN IS RESTORED. Yes it’s going to cost more in shipping items, but isn’t that where most of the headaches and disputes lie. And If you want to keep the shipping cost down or the buying and selling method open then post the auction as an “ AS IS AUCTION “ both parties must agree to an automatic positive trade agreement and funds released upon a certain date or upon signature of receipt from a courier

$25/year is a lot for people who only buy or sell a few items a year, and I'm not sure it's enough to cover the costs of this level of tracking and arbitration, but that's something that could be worked out.

3 days to confirm is way too short for me on many of my transactions -- others will feel the same. For example, due to inability to predict shipping times, I may get something during or just before a trip. Shall I not be able to buy safely if I will travel?

Forcing people to sign for things doesn't work for residential delivery. In low-crime areas, the shippers routinely leave stuff on your doorstep, and that's what you want -- nothing more annoying than having missed a shipper and learning you must now jump through hoops to get the item, or at best wait longer -- especially, again if you will be out the next day.

Verified shipping, while important for low-feedback users, is more expensive than the unverified mail and that's a must for certain low ticket items, including media items (books/videos) which go by media mail at a very low price.

And who loses if something really is lost in the mail? Always the seller?

eBay loves the largely positive feedback in the system. It makes people feel comfortable. They don't want to boost negative feedback!

I fear you might get too many as-is auctions.

What do you think of current DSR rating introduced by eBay. Do you think they are more credible than recent feedback ratings?
Do you think by hiding recent feedback rating and highlighting can resolve the issues?
I think good sellers would be separated from bogus sellers based on DSRs

Pay? Ebay should make enough from fees to offer it free!

We are Ebay PowerSellers and this is what we've posted in our store regarding feedback:

Ebay's feedback system is a great tool to let bidders and sellers know about the integrity of those with whom they deal. It helps expose dishonest operators and extremely unreasonable buyers.

Unfortunately, some ebayers use negative feedback to express disappointment over the condition of an item instead of contacting the seller for a refund or replacement. We don't believe that this constitutes proper use of the feedback system. In this case, we will reply with the same on the basis that the customer is misusing feedback for what is a simple customer service issue.

If you buy a vacuum cleaner from Sears and it doesn't work right, you wouldn't take out an ad trashing Sears' reputation, or call the Better Business Bureau, right? No, you would contact their customer service department to make things right.

We will be glad to help you if you are unhappy with any item you buy from us and there are several ways to remedy any situation. These include full refund, partial refund, replacement, or credit.

The very nature of buying and selling records and other collectibles online means that sometimes (hopefully rarely) mistakes are made in grading or items don't sound like they look. Please contact us first before leaving negative feedback to see what we can do to make you happy.

We are full-time sellers on ebay and have many years experience. It is not logical to assume we won't take care of you or that we'll rip you off for $8. Like all serious sellers, we need to protect our feedback rating. We do this by operating honestly with the best intentions and expect our customers to be reasonable too. Please get to know our policies by reading the pages on shipping, grading, and returns.

Regarding positive feedback in a typical transaction, we use ebay's automated system for sellers in the Selling Manager Pro software. As high volume sellers, it saves us a great deal of time, while ensuring that everyone who leaves us positive feedback gets the same. We understand that some people like to get their feedback first after paying, but it is simply a lot more work for us to do things that way. Plus, our experience with a buyer doesn't end with receiving payment. A transaction isn't over until you've received the item and are satisfied.

Thanks for your business!


Anybody else notice the trend of BUYERS NOT READING THE DESCRIPTION for the item they are buying? I'm a powerseller and have noticed a huge increase over the last year or so. They seem to be reading the titles, clicking buy, and then complain when they get the item that it's not what they expected... when, if they would have read the first sentence in the description they would know right away exactly what they are getting.


Then there's the buyers who CAN'T EVEN READ OR SPEAK ENGLISH who are buying and then complaining because they didn't understand the terms of the sale.

Or the Buyers who Buy a whole bunch of items from you.... then don't pay, and when you file a NPB against them they have some story about how someone got on their account and bought stuff and blah blah blah.....


And now ebay is making it so buyers can ONLY RECEIVE POSITIVE FEEDBACK!!!!

WTF is that!?!?!

So when Joe Buyer comes and takes his sweet time paying for an item, then once he gets it and leaves me a negative because he didn't read the description and thinks he should have gotten more than what he paid for, and used EXTREME vulgarity in his emails towards me... he can leave me a neg and I can't do anything to show sellers what an ass he is?!?

But hey, atleast ebay is lowering their fees by a nickle and giving us free gallery... right?

What was the point of feedback to buyers? You usually don't get to do anything with buyer feedback. A buyer with poor feedback can win your auction in the last second. Sellers could get hardlined about voiding wins by low feedback buyers, but then buyers would just discard and recreate accounts regularly if this became a problem.

No, the only real value in giving neg feedback to a buyer was to punish them when they want to _sell_, and largely in particular it was to have the threat of revenge feedback to keep the buyer from doing a negative. And that was not a productive system at all. So I'm glad it's gone.

I decided to express my anger with e(enron)Bay through their discussion board. They promptly suspended my rights, not only post, but to view the boards. I expressed my total disgust with them, i ask for and suggested other sites for sellers to try. I informed the board of different communications i had received and supported a boycott of e(enron)Bay. I never used foul language, cursing or anything like that. This place is so apparent with their obvious distain for the sellers. Their cowardice, in not allowing those who make them so rich, to express their views is indicative of their God like attitude. Think back a short while, to the tapes of the Enron executives laughing at the Grandma's having to pay such exhorbinate fuel oil prices because of their price fixing schemes. This is what we have here, only on a smaller scale. I will not be silenced and e(enron)Bay will regret this stupid decision.!!!!! ABOLUTE POWER, CORRUPTS, ABSOLUTELY.

I have just recently received two records from a seller called tradingp0st, however I was pretty disappointed to open the package to find both records broken in half, due to inadequate packaging. I contacted the seller, who informed me that they would give refund on one of two conditions. First was to send the records back for a refund or to leave a positive feedback providing them with my bank account details and they would pay the refund. However, being reasonably new to the system, I have left the positive feedback and provided my account details, I am still waiting for the refund, and now all of a sudden the seller has changed their name to sh0pcl0sed. They have supposedly closed. However, I still have the packaging with the return address. Does, anyone have any ideas of what to do?

Please be aware that there is a new FRAUD being implemented right before your eyes on eBay.

It's is difficult to identify due to it's cleverly hidden implementation.

Fake and nonesense accounts are being created and used to bid on high value items with no intention to pay.

These are actually account created and managed by eBay servers/people.

A normal non paying bidder situation used to be resolved by waiting the standard 7 days and filing a NPB Alert. After the expiry of an additional 7 days, the seller could choose to place a strike against the buyer and receive a fee refund. These buyers were often ones who had a problem with some term or condition they didn't approve of or communicated they simply changed their minds.


Suspicious and mysterious account using fake or missing account information are being used to target items in the 1000-10000 range. These accounts having missing or invalid contact information are considered a violation of the TOS and used to be immediately suspended or the accociated transaction was nullified/cancelled leaving no trace of it on the system. NOW....these accounts are not being treated them same and it's left to the sellers to finalize the cancellation process to receive a refund.

Often sellers will not do this because They fear that a negative strike against the buyer will cause them to leave a negative feedback. This fear for the seller is overwealming, especially for business owners who depend on eBay for a living.

With over 20,000.00 in npb sales on my two accounts in the last 30 days, the numbers being added to ebay's sales figures and the subsequent FVF collected as a result are most likely staggering. It is my estimation, a high percentage of these fees go unrecovered or unclaimed by seller out of fear of a negative.

Although a new feature has been added to allow the immediate starting of the 7 day process for refund, it's a little known feature and most likely would be used as a defense to this accusation.

The winfall from Ebay's new NPB fraud coupled with the revenue from 21 day holds are difficult for laymen to comprehend. These two matters should be investigated by federal trade comission authorities and charges brought forth against management if crimes are discovered.

I am convinced that Ebay is involved with NPB Fraud. The next time you have someone who hasn't said a word to you after 24 hours from invoice being your eyes to the truth. eBay is trying to steal your money while making itself look good to shareholders.

From a 10 year power seller with a retarded savant like illness which allows me to see the truth in situations easier than others.

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