Ron Moore says "I'ts not a guest star we've never seen."

Submitted by brad on Sun, 2008-07-27 14:04

At the recent BSG panel at the San Diego ComiCon, some hints dash a number of hopes for the final Cylon. You can read IO9's article on important items from the panel.

Most telling is this line from Ron Moore:

"I can tell you it's someone you've seen. It won't be a guest-star"

This quickly eliminates a number of characters people have had under consideration, such as Joseph Adama and Zak Adama. Indeed, it won't be anybody from Caprica. You can also count out Adar, Boxey and other such minor characters. If you want to take Moore in full TV-speak, a "guest star" is anybody who is not on the full regular cast. For example, Tigh, Foster, Tyrol, Anders, Helo, Dualla, Gaeta and many others are all listed as "guest stars" in the credits, though some of them approach the screen time of the regulars. In fact, if you combine the "Last Supper" picture which has all the regulars and a literal "no guest star" declaration, then everybody is eliminated, and you have to go to theories like "That's the virtual Baltar in the picture." So I take this to mean that it won't be a new guest star, like Joseph Adama would be.

Another character, already eliminated by the declaration that there are "four in the fleet" is Gaeta. David Eick says that as they were picking who would be a Cylon in season 3, they debated for a while between Anders and Gaeta. If Gaeta were the final Cylon, that's an unlikely debate. (One could stretch things and suggest they were debating who would be revealed and who would be hidden among these two, but frankly that doesn't make a lot of sense.)

This does not leave fans with many workable choices. Percolating to the top now is Ellen Tigh. I will admit there are some interesting dramatic ironies to her story -- two star-crossed lovers who, unaware of their nature, still find each other, collaborating with Cavil, one having to execute the other -- but I just don't see her as a satisfying final Cylon to be revealed.

I have similar misgivings for Cally, another popular fan choice. "Ah, it was her all along" doesn't do it for me. Gaeta's song does point to a female, but still.

Both Ellen Tigh and Cally were credited as guest stars but they are familiar to the audience. Cally got a lot of screen time. Ellen will be pretty unfamiliar to latecomer viewers, though we have seen Tigh have his visions of her.

It does make one want to believe that some of these elimination clues are just plain wrong. If four-in-the-fleet is wrong, then Gaeta's elimination leaves us mostly with the uninspiring Dualla, with a few possible outliers like Cottle. If the Last Supper is false in spite of promises, I remain with Baltar.

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Comments

Anonymous

Sun, 2008-07-27 19:52

I read Ron's comment as meaning the Final Cylon will be someone we've seen,and their appearance won't be as a guest star. That doesn't necessarily rule out someone who's made an occasional appearance. However, if you lean on them not being a guest star a bit heavier that could mean they're a character higher up the billing. I'd tend to agree with that as the more peripheral characters would be a bit "So what?" As for seriously considering Cally and Billy , I think, that's more of a brain-fart which makes them fall into "not gonna happen" territory. In any case, shooting is complete and Cally and Billy are both out of the frame unless Ron's been shooting secret footage in back yard.

What did disturb me is Ron's earlier comment on how he tried to squeeze the Protoype-Hybrid into the Final Cylon slot, which kinda shakes the whole purpose of the Final Cylon and weakens the dramatic reveal. I'm glad he didn't go down that route but can understand why he flirted with the idea. More worrying than that is how everyone was put on the board for the whole writing team to consider. That pulled the rug on the orginal intent of the character but it can be read as helping keeping peoples minds clear and not letting the already decided candidate for the role leak out.

I've got some doubts about the Last Supper image comment. You can still read it as Ron blurting something out when being caught on the hop, and his comment that "Yeah, I did say that" was just a comment that, yes, he did say that. I agree, Ellen rises to the top as the strongest candidate. Dualla would be good but the plot hasn't been worked to support that well. Doc Cottle is way and above the best character and supported by the plot but he still has that "Oh, Jeez" factor about him. It's probably a sretch too far to suggest Ron wouldn't have a career if he made Starbuck the Final Cylon but I'm finding Baltar swimming back into the frame.

brad

Sun, 2008-07-27 21:38

Indeed "Yeah I did say that" confirms little, but I got the reporter to ask him again and he was effectively unequivocal, unless you want to play games with the meaning of "people."

Where was the note about the prototype hybrid? I don't think he fits well, but I think they do want to explain how the final 5 played some role in the creation of the Cylons on Caprica and their move to biological bodies, so there may be a connection. His existence is "to begin again in ways uncertain," remember.

Anonymous

Sun, 2008-07-27 22:20

We've covered the Prototype Hybrid and Final Cylon in earlier discussions. Ron mentioned it in the Rzor podcast, if I remember correctly. I don't think he works well either, and you're right to raise the issue of "manufactured" versus "natural" conciousness. Ron's brush with Buddhist philosophy may have helped cement the view that whatever the size or flavour, a cake is still a cake. On your last observation, it's interesting that humans become Cylons in Caprica, and there's a hint that Cylon's become humans, here.

I tend to see the Prototype Hybrid's rebirth and the other hybrid kid as being one of Ron's typical plot gestures. He likes to push things but he's not so dumb he'll let it screw with the underlying plot. Sure, he's painted himself into a few corners but he's not so bone headed he'll do something totally daft. Most of what we know about that probably wouldn't be known if he didn't blab in the podcasts, and wouldn't be an issue if people didn't obsess, so I'm generally relaxed about things. He's kept the train on the tracks so far.

Anonymous

Sun, 2008-07-27 21:23

I still think people are barking up the wrong tree with the "four in the fleet" comment. Deana only says that four are in the fleet. The comment could mean "at least four" or it could mean "only four." We're not given enough information, and I don't think that the information that we have is enough to assume the latter.

brad

Sun, 2008-07-27 21:40

It's a possible interpretation, but if you watch the scene it sure doesn't read that way.

When somebody says, "I thought there were five" and she says "There are four in your fleet" she's not trying to say that there are at least 4. She's saying she is on a mission to collect 4, which means that somehow she knows she will only collect 4.

How does she know that? She should not know who's aware and who isn't. She's seen the 5th, probably apologized to him/her and for some reason knows that there are only 4 to collect from the fleet this time.

If the 5th is in the fleet, how does she know the 5th is different from the other 4 and won't be coming?

Ladybird

Mon, 2008-07-28 19:59

I have to go with Virtual 6 as the final cylon. This explains to me why the chair is empty in the last supper picture because there is no physical body to place in the picture (at the moment). This is a character in its own right, that has been with us since season 1 and this character plays the role of god/devil/holy ghost. Is this the cylon god? The breakaway cylon from the original 5 who programmed the other seven. Perhaps even making a cylon copy of herself.

brad

Tue, 2008-07-29 00:02

D'Anna has no awareness of her. And after she sees the final 5, she tells Cavil "there are five other Cylons, brother."

If she just saw a Six model, she would indeed be shocked, and might indeed say "Forgive me, I had no idea." But she wouldn't know she was seeing somebody who was not a real six. She would just have seen a six.

However, you do give me another idea. The being in Baltar's head isn't a six at all. Sometimes it appears as a Baltar. And it appears as a Baltar to real-Caprica-6 as well. Baltar was cap-6's lover, and also D'Anna's lover.

So it's possible that the "Virtual being" is the final Cylon, but that what D'Anna saw was not a six manifestation, but somebody else, in particular a Baltar. As such, she now thinks Baltar is the final Cylon, and doesn't know it's really the Cylon god or something like it. Explains "four in your fleet" too.

Oooh, sneaky. So you could be right, but in a way you didn't expect.

Ladybird

Tue, 2008-07-29 06:17

Well, if you remove all the possibilities, whatever remains however improbable.... as the saying goes. LOL. Hiding in plain sight, I'd say. I still have to stay with Caprica 6 (or the original herself). There are so many pointers (clues?) In Last Supper picture, Virtual 6 is actually in the picture in the "god" position, presiding over the the table. This 6 is different in that she always appears to Baltar in Red (dare we say Catholic Cardinal red). Then there is the Gina pointing accusingly to Virtual 6 and what the heck is Tigh looking at? The Ellen/Caprica in his head? Then there is the picture that Hera draws covered in 6's. (What is the number of the beast? 666). This version of god wants to have a divine child with a human. Its a reversal of the traditional holy trilogy. I can make this fit in so many ways. Except that a virtual Baltar instead of virtual 6 does fit the redemption prophecy. Unless there is a backstory coming that explain the redemption requirement of 6. There is one thing that is throwing a monkeywrench into everything for me and that is the statement by Dedona Selio to D'Anna that Zeus and the Lords of Kobol are sad for her and that she has a message for her from the cylon god. (I probably messed up the exact quote but you get the idea.) I actually thing that the Opera House is some kind of AI interface or download interface and the figures we are shown are the Lords of Kobol and not the final 5 cylons of which the figure that D'Anna speaks to is Caprica 6. I think the 4 known cylons are servants of the LOK and the LOK have cloned representatives of themselves in the forms of Starbuck, Baltar, Caprica 6, Roslyn and Bill Adama. But well, the logic starts to become tortured. LOL. If this were a sci-fi novel instead of a final 10 or so episodes, the writers could probably make something of it. But as you have pointed out, the explanation has to be less complicated. So I will leave the Virtual Balter theory to you! Since you are so good at explaining these things. I have enjoyed reading your blog for some time.

Anonymous

Tue, 2008-08-19 06:02

I've been looking for credits for dead or unseen for awhile charartors on BSG for a long time. I found one at:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0576425/

Does this make sence? Flashbacks or Final Cylon?

Is there any shock value if he is anything more than a flashback?

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