I mean, does the show's science advisor know in S1 where the executive producer plans on sending the show at the end of season four?

Does this ever annoy me. But I do appreciate his admission that it was a mistake and/or a problem. This Tomb of Athena problem was one of the many unresolved issues I wanted them to address, and they did not, and i'm almost relieved it was a fuck-up because at least I know they didn't just forget about it. I'd rather them admit to botching it than just forgetting. Nobody's perfect, after all, and I can forgive them as long as the story is good (which i'm not sure yet if it really is. I'll need some years to fully digest the complete series).

Brad, you're a machine. Wow.

You're right. Something like the Tomb of Athena is a big deal you can't duck. Another worrying issue is how Ron's misunderstood hardcore sci-fi fans by suggesting they only wanted nonstop action and gore. The basic narrative strategy was fubared and they were out of touch. It's absolutely the right thing to do to call them on this. The hard part is presenting the case well and not raping people in the ass for the sake of it. I've said before that Ron aimed for a Lisa and got a Mac. I think, that's a fair call.

Two more issues that caught my eye over the past week when I was digging for other stuff is how RDM sold the show to sci-fi by bringing in pro marketing people and going behind people's backs. I understand that caused some stick around the time RDM won the franchise but that's a seperate issue. The other thing that really bugged me is the woman on steroids roles. As a man I get ticked off with too much machismo in this world and women signing up like lemmings to some nu-feminist agenda is just pouring petrol on the fire. And what's with this "cougar" thing in the last episode where Roslin's lay was some wet nappy ladyman? Hypocrisy, or what.

Okay, so the BSG team can't write and they don't know a thing about character. That explains a lot. And to top it all, we get this overt and covert Zen Buddhist spin and there's RDM front and centre in a making of pimp video and doing some shallow PR stunt at the UN. That's nothing new. It's the same old "here we are come buy our stuff model" that all the cynical retreads this show claimed to be against pull every day. I'm not going to scapegoat Ron for it but I expected better and what was delivered has aspects to it that are disappointing. The plus side is we can learn from our mistakes. Maybe next time will be better. Hur, hur.

...the fundamental question of why these shows are written by people who need a science advisor to explain basic science to them. In general hard SF novellists are themselves fans of science who understand what they're writing about, and presumably enjoy researching the science behind the stories they are creating.

But then in TV, they need to hire someone to tell them the difference between a star and a planet. Bit depressing really. It's like me, who knows very little about the history of the Wild West, trying to write a western novel. I would get lots of things wrong, because I wouldn't be aware I was making mistakes in terms of settings, history, behaviour, technologies and so on. It's obviously better for people with a deep knowledge of the wild west to write westerns. Likewise, you'd think people writing SF would be people with a knowledge of, and interest in, science. Wouldn't you?

I don't think anyone is upset or would disagree that BSG is a drama first and foremost...I know the problem for me is that the ideas that were set in motion with the mini and expanded on in S1 & S2 were not consistent with most of S4 and the finale.

For those of you that were sure that this show was about gods and angels, biblical prophecy set to reality etc, I am sure you are completely happy with the way this series ended.

I was not unhappy with religion being in the show. To the contrary I found it consistent with our own culture and civilization. Even while I heard characters describe Kara's role as an angel or head Six and Baltar as god's messengers I never in my wildest dreams thought that th is was actually what they were...never. Why? Because this WAS a well thought out, brilliantly written piece of sci fi. To fall back on god's will as answers to the most mysterious and troubling questions is no different if I told you the sun came up each morning because god willed it. That babies are made and die because it was god's plan. Many who watched this show simply do not fall into the fundamentalist religious camp so this explanation is a cop out.

Finally, because you can use this device to explain ANYTHING it renders all good and consistent storytelling moot. No need to if you can pull good old God out of your hat.

I posted something similar to what I'm posting here on another strand of this blog, but it looks like this strand is more active, so I'm putting it in here too:

I believe the bogus science (or non-science) explaining modern human origins derives from a literary failing as well as it just being wrong science. So to those who are saying "well, it's science fiction so it doesn't have to be true to science", I'm going to argue that it's not only not true to science - it's not true to the whole storyline of BSG as a whole, as it preceded the finale.

I can't read Ronald Moore's mind, but I am speculating (why not?) that he became wedded, for whatever reason, to making the point that Hera is not just the mother of a future humanity, but the mother of present humanity. My view is that his insistence on maintaining this in the plot blocked what the story itself was calling for. By doing that, one ends up with inconsistencies in the story - like how did the Earth visible constellations get to the tomb of Athena - and the contrived divine interventions at the end, just to be able make the final point about Hera being our "mother". It forces the non-scientific presentation of human origins into the story: that we (modern humans) are the descendants of human aliens from Kobol, Cylons, and primitive humans.

It forces the colonials to dump all of their technology, so as to "fit" the BSG story of human origins into what we know today. The ending says, well, we integrated human and machine in a positive way (Hera) at incredible cost, but the best thing to do now is to just forget about all that and then, hopefully, everything will turn out OK. I think BSG has been a much better show than that: the whole BSG story is a story of redemption based on the union of human and machine, as symbolized by the Hera story (or at least the possibility of redemption). That's powerful stuff that just gets ejected in the ending, by having the major characters essentially say, let's forget the "true" history (true from the perspective of the story as told; false from the perspective of what we know about human evolution) of human origins, and let later humans figure it out all over again, maybe. What good redemption story does that? It fails scientifically, but also from a literary point of view, because the ending thematically undermines the story up to that point.

The plotline where the Earth constellations are seen from the tomb of Athena clearly indicate the story is saying, someone from Earth - our Earth, our past - came to Kobol and created this. The fact that the science advisor to the show, Grazier, acknowledges a problem with it given how the story developed, is relevant.

If you read things that writers say about their creative process, it's not uncommon for them to say that, as the writing unfolds, their characters' true natures inform the author of where the story should go. This is often different from what the initial conception might have been. And a good writer will listen to what his or her characters are saying. Even Moore has spoken of this sort of process multiple times. I believe that the Earth constellations at the tomb of Athena is an example of a story so well conceived, that even if Moore didn't have the ending worked out at the time this was written, the story itself was pointing in the direction that the Kobolian humans had origins on our Earth, in our Earth past.

By forcing Hera to be the "mother" of present humanity, the structural bounds and consistency of the story that enable its aesthetic meaning are therefore broken. This was not necessary from the story itself unless you really feel that the meaning of the story is bound up in Hera being our "mother"

So in contrast to what Moore himself has said - that the ending was all about characters and not plot - I think it's possible he messed up the ending for what was basically a plot point: that Hera is the mother of present humanity. Maybe he didn't view it as a plot point; maybe he thought the message and meaning of his creation are all contained in that ending. But I don't agree with that. I pointed out earlier the structural inconsistencies in the ending that derive from the story itself, to indicate that this ending doesn't really make sense based on the story alone.

I think a story where Hera is the mother of a future humanity, where human and technology are integrated and reconciled in a spiritual-religious context, is pretty powerful, more powerful than Hera as the "mother" of us, in the present. The future can still be left open, maybe the integrated humans and machines are susceptible to more cycles of war; but at least redemption is a possibility, and this is absolutely consistent with the symbolism of Hera.

Starbuck's Bob Dylan Jump goes back in time. (I know they said they wouldn't, but ...)